Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Automatic instalation/updat feature (Read 6,283 times)
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,789
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #19 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 12:15am
Post Tools
RKL wrote on Jul 9th, 2009 at 7:20am:
How about making an FTP installer for Yabb which creates the needed folders, uploads and CHMODs the files.


Umm - we could begin right here, because FTP intrinsically does not support scripting.  The installer would have to run from the client side.  LOL - hey maybe you can write a Windows one for us.

Cool
  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
OH Eng
Past Team Members
Documentation Team
Offline



Posts: 4,026
Location: Pensacola, Florida USA
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #18 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 11:53am
Post Tools
RKL wrote on Jul 9th, 2009 at 7:20am:
I write desktop software for a living, and we magic away all the setup and update issues with our installers.


If YaBB was a desktop software, it would be easy to do.  But it's not... it's made to work on a wide variety of servers, each of them subject to different setups, using different OS/software, different configurations, etc.  If you look in the Quick Guide, you will see there is a recommended set of CHMODs, and alternatives, because one set of CHMODs will not work everywhere.  That's what makes it extremely difficult to do.

  

 
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RKL
YaBB Newcomer
*
Offline



Posts: 1
Installer
Reply #17 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 7:20am
Post Tools
Installing and updating Yabb is tricky and slow.

For a geek, a page or two of install or update instructions and a Google search or two might get the job done.  But many of us run "setup.exe" when we install or upgrade software.  In fact, I only run Yabb because CPanel offers it and I gave up trying to manually update to V2.4.

How about making an FTP installer for Yabb which creates the needed folders, uploads and CHMODs the files.  It could show a GUI which lets you select the install folder and set a few basics.  This installer could even run on a server somewhere and just show a simple form in the browser.

The same sort of program would help when updating Yabb.

I write desktop software for a living, and we magic away all the setup and update issues with our installers.  Maybe Yabb can become much more popular through similar ease of use?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
deti
Legacy Dev Team
Development Team
****
Offline



Posts: 2,650
Location: Prien am Chiemsee, Germany
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #16 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:23pm
Post Tools
Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Posts beeing OFF Topic I splited. Please don't mix topics! Thanks.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:26pm by deti »  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,789
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #15 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 6:47pm
Post Tools
Quote:
To do a compatibility test, you either will need shell access or a CGI script that isn't Perl-based.  You could easily use PHP, but then you'd have to require PHP on the server, something which YaBB currently does not require.  Other than that, I'm not sure what cross-platform CGI you could use, since anything compiled would not be platform-independent.  Is there something that would work?


Well cepheid, LOL - I was hoping you might know the answer to that one  Grin

I was 'thinking' you might be able to search an environment variable for 'Perl' perhaps with a page with some Javascript in it - but I really don't know.

Shocked
  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
cepheid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 516
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #14 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 5:41pm
Post Tools
JonB wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 1:41pm:
I'll also point out that the 'path to Perl' / shebang has been a recurring problem.I have been thinking that a 'Server Compatibility' test was/is needed.

To do a compatibility test, you either will need shell access or a CGI script that isn't Perl-based.  You could easily use PHP, but then you'd have to require PHP on the server, something which YaBB currently does not require.  Other than that, I'm not sure what cross-platform CGI you could use, since anything compiled would not be platform-independent.  Is there something that would work?

(Speaking of which, are there any plans to move YaBB to PHP in the future?  Or, is there a reason you prefer to stick to Perl, besides the fact that it's already done that way?  PHP would have the benefit of being truly cross-platform, without having to do anything with "path to Perl," etc.  Obviously, it would be a lot of work to port it.)
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,789
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #13 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 1:41pm
Post Tools
I think part and parcel of this is defining a set of 'supported' platforms. Then the first generation 'installer' can be constrained to 'get it to work' - then you add more options and platforms.

I'll also point out that the 'path to Perl' / shebang has been a recurring problem.  I have been thinking that a 'Server Compatibility' test was/is needed.

I know you guys (well most) all love Unix, but it isn't the be-all and end-all. (Note, I was Unix System V certified - so I'm not against it).  I expect that with Server 2008 Core, Powerscript, FastCGI, and 'legal' support for MySQL, the already large Windows server share will increase.

It should also be noted that Apache and IIS 'were' very different.  But when MS designed Server 2008, they brought in the Tomcat team to help optimize the core correctly, added a universal stack scripting tool 'powershell' (it has access to the MS internals) and implemented FastCGI in the IIS core.  As I have said before, IIS and Windows Server are really 'an application server', not a webserver, even if MS sometimes uses that term.  Its not semantics, its fundamentally different.

I'm currently on my second round of Server 2008 testing, and already know that Perl on Server 2008 is not going to be the same animal. (I'm taking notes, LOL)

I'm totally in favor of a straightforward installer.  In fact, my brain says it should be a 'standard/custom' installer (like most applications). The 'standard' installation should do a basic install with default folders.

(this is off-topic a bit - but I also think there should be a 'lite' feature set switch - for basic installs) - maybe down the road).

Smiley
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2009 at 1:46pm by JonB »  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
deti
Legacy Dev Team
Development Team
****
Offline



Posts: 2,650
Location: Prien am Chiemsee, Germany
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #12 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 12:52pm
Post Tools
@ OH Eng

Yes, you are right. I think at first we can use the CHMOD from the tarball, then, in an next step, check if the script can read an write something into all folders and files where this is needed. If this fails we provide  an second alternative CHMOD setting. For this we must build a routine that sets the CHMOD according to this alternative settings. If this also doesn't work on the check the user will get an info that we can't manage it and that he must set his CHMOD by himself.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2009 at 12:52pm by deti »  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
OH Eng
Past Team Members
Documentation Team
Offline



Posts: 4,026
Location: Pensacola, Florida USA
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #11 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:56am
Post Tools
There is still the matter of permissions not being universal across all servers and server configurations.

  

 
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cepheid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 516
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #10 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:50am
Post Tools
deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:44am:
Yes, I know we can do it that way, but then we must code both.

Of course!  The script should always support having the tarball locally.  I was just thinking that we could add an extra feature of having the tarball downloaded automatically, that's all.  In addition, not instead. Smiley
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
deti
Legacy Dev Team
Development Team
****
Offline



Posts: 2,650
Location: Prien am Chiemsee, Germany
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #9 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:44am
Post Tools
cepheid wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:36am:
It may require a curl module for Perl though.

Yes, I know we can do it that way, but then we must code both. There might be servers that don't have this modules or don't allow scripts to import files from the internet/access the internet.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:45am by deti »  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
cepheid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 516
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #8 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:36am
Post Tools
deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:28am:
run the upgrade procedure

I'm not familiar with the upgrade procedure since I've never run it - I've only done a clean install - so I might have to let you write that part. Smiley  The upgrade script could become part of the Admin Center, really.

Also:
deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:28am:
Upload the tar/zip from your PC to the server

You know, we could even implement an auto-download, so that you don't have to download the file to your PC and then upload to the server... the upgrade/install script could download the tarball for you.  We would need to code in the URLs of some fixed mirrors, but that shouldn't be too difficult at all.  It may require a curl module for Perl though.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
deti
Legacy Dev Team
Development Team
****
Offline



Posts: 2,650
Location: Prien am Chiemsee, Germany
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #7 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:28am
Post Tools
cepheid wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:18am:
I guess that means it should be in Perl, huh?

Yes and working the same way as Setup.pl is working at the moment.

You put the tar.gz (on Windows the zip) and the installation-file in the same folder on your server and then call the script with your browser. On first installation it asks you for the paths and then installs everything there. Then you can do the normal setup. After this is done you should delete at least the installation script and can delete also the compressed file to save disk space and because it's not needed any more.

For update there should then be a script in Admin/ doing the upgrade: Upload the tar/zip from your PC to the server, extract it, run the upgrade procedure and then delete the uploaded file if you allow it.
  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
cepheid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 516
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:18am
Post Tools
deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:56am:
But not every user has shell access on his server and therefore can't extract the tarball

Oh, I understand, that's not a problem.  I just meant that if the user has the tarball, the permissions should be just fine - there should be no need to use chmod at all.  The installation script merely needs to unpack the tarball, and all should be well.

deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:56am:
This would be nice, but I am still waiting for other things you told us you will write something for. Maybe you do this first.

Well, yeah... Smiley  But hey, I'm a graduate student, other priorities have to come first.  I'll do this as soon as I can, and the other stuff, too.

I guess based on your previous replies that you intend this to be usable by people without shell access?  Then it can't be a shell script, or rather, it can be a shell script but will still need a web interface...

deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:56am:
If you update a existing forum normally the admin should have changed his password from "admin" to something else!

Ah, I get it.  But, this is only true if people are updating from 2.3 and up, because anyone updating an older version has to install 2.4 from scratch.  Nevertheless, no problem, it's easy enough to check the admin password.

deti wrote on Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:56am:
But if it's not to hard to code it also should run though the other things needed for upgrade, so that it is ready to use after update.

If the installation script is Perl, then it shouldn't be too hard to code that part... we simply need to put in calls to the appropriate rebuild functions.  If the installation script is a shellscript or in PHP, then this would be much more difficult.  I guess that means it should be in Perl, huh?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
deti
Legacy Dev Team
Development Team
****
Offline



Posts: 2,650
Location: Prien am Chiemsee, Germany
Re: Automatic instalation/updat feature
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:56am
Post Tools
cepheid wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:38pm:
I'm not sure about permissions settings using the zip file and/or on Windows hosts,

I'm not experienced also. zip files normally don't have permission info as far as I know. Also i got the impression that for Windows servers the matter of permissions is not a such big problem, but I might be wrong.

cepheid wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:38pm:
, but on a UNIX server (including Mac OS X) using the tarball, the CHMOD doesn't seem to be an issue.

But not every user has shell access on his server and therefore can't extract the tarball Wink So he needs a program to do this for him:
"The YaBB instalation tool".

cepheid wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:38pm:
It should be an easy script and I'll see if I have some time to write one up.

This would be nice, but I am still waiting for other things you told us you will write something for. Maybe you do this first. Wink

cepheid wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:38pm:
For update, the admin user/pass should not be needed, because the installation uses the default pass and the settings file then gets replaced with the old one.

If you update a existing forum normally the admin should have changed his password from "admin" to something else! To prevent hackers doing something bad on your files you must use the username and PW from the admin.vars file!!!

cepheid wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:38pm:
deti, would you imagine that this script automatically runs through the maintenance procedures (rebuild memberlist, rebuild thread index, etc.) automatically?  Or, would the user still have to do that?

Hmmm, I didn't think about this jet. But if it's not to hard to code it also should run though the other things needed for upgrade, so that it is ready to use after update.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:57am by deti »  

Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top