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admin email incorrect after setup (Read 13,305 times)
 Reply #15 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm
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OH Eng 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
cepheid, I don't know if you are distorting reality on purpose just to get some sort of rise out of me, or not, but frankly you are wearing on me.

Since the day you arrived you have been extremely critical of many aspects of YaBB using only your eyeball and how you think it should be done, including that you think it ought to be coded in PHP after others even pointed out those forums are already out there.  You never ask why something is the way it is, only that "it's wrong" without any other consideration or any other input.  And you've been around here what, 2 months?  Other than my mistake in understanding the feature you were trying to describe - the address in the profile - I've not made "reading" mistakes with your suggestions.  I just think some of your suggestions are not good.  Like converting to PHP.  Like spending time formatting HTML when "the plan" is to do it all over again later.  Like making a big deal out of a few icons and they still aren't all consistent.  I would think you'd want to spend time doing what needs to be done rather than going off in corner with something you don't like to fix it.  But what do I know?


You might be one hell of a coder - who knows, we haven't seen much but promises out of you - but one thing you are NOT is experienced with the user base of this program.  I believe I do have some edge on you there, and it is from that experience I make the comments I do.  Believe me, you are not the first Dev to suggest making a change that would cause problems/confusion to users, and as a Support Team member who has to deal with the end product, you bet I am concerned when someone's "view" is different than reality.  All I can do is let you know my concerns.  I don't carry any more weight than you do, I'm just trying to give you the benefit of my experience.  You can choose to accept it as that, or you can take it personally and get all bent out of shape - that is YOUR choice, not mine.

So from here on in, I'll just be silent when you propose changes and you change whatever you want to.  If you do something that causes problems for users, THEN you will hear from me.  Loudly.  And if you ask why no one told you, I'll link to this thread as my answer.





 
 
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 Reply #16 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:52pm
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cepheid 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
(I would have taken the post below to PM, but could not, for reasons I will not state here.  If the moderators, including OH Eng, feel that this argument does not belong here, please feel free to delete it in its entirety.  I would have taken it to PM if I could have.)

OH Eng wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm:
including that you think it ought to be coded in PHP

That was a question for discussion, not a declaration.  I don't think it is me who is distorting reality.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm:
You never ask why something is the way it is, only that "it's wrong" without any other consideration or any other input.

I think you are deliberately misrepresenting things here, including the use of such broad generalities as "never" and "any."  I take plenty of consideration of other input and ideas.  If I recall correctly, it is you who often (I won't say "always") criticizes a number of suggestions based on problems that are either irrelevant to the situation, entirely avoidable via preferences, or entirely hypothetical because no implementation had even been decided.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm:
And you've been around here what, 2 months?

I've been around for a number of years, if you look at my join date, and I helped fix the captcha issue with v2.1.  I only recently became much more active, but I've been around and using YaBB for quite some time.  Before you joined the forum, in fact, for whatever that's worth.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm:
Like spending time formatting HTML when "the plan" is to do it all over again later.

I've already explained myself on that one, but I'll do it again: it took 5 minutes, and the HTML template will very likely be built from the existing code... at least, that's my prediction, but I'm not the one doing it, so I could be wrong.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm:
who knows, we haven't seen much but promises out of you

While I certainly haven't written hundreds of lines of code quite yet, I have contributed 4 not entirely insubstantial patches (not counting the trivial HTML one).  It may not be "much" but it's quite a bit more than "promises."

OH Eng wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:26pm:
you can take it personally and get all bent out of shape

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I've taken anything personally, nor does it mean I've gotten "bent out of shape."  I have made no personal attacks on you, which is not something I can say of you.

I respect your opinion and I respect the dedication you have to YaBB.  What bothers me is your immediate criticism of ideas by presenting strawman arguments that are often (not always) avoidable or irrelevant - you could provide constructive criticism, instead of destructive.  I am also bothered by your condescension and style of lecturing.

I'm sure you could say the same things about me, so let's make a deal, eh?  How about I'll try to phrase everything as a question rather than a statement, to show that I'm open to ideas and not making over declarations, if you try to help flesh out ideas rather than grinding them to a halt?  Would that be an acceptable solution?
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2009 at 12:06am by cepheid »  
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 Reply #17 - Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am
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OH Eng 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
Quote:
I would have taken the post below to PM, but could not, for reasons I will not state here.


I'll state it for you.  My PMs are off.  I get PM'ed constantly for support and question after question about how this works, how that works, etc.  by users who I ask to post in the boards, but some reason don't want to.  You know, my source of all those straw-man arguments I make?  So two nights ago I did what I periodically do... I turn PMs to "ignore all" to give myself a little sanity break from them.  Nothing nefarious about it.

Quote:
...if you try to help flesh out ideas rather than grinding them to a halt


Ground to a halt... like these you mean?
http://www.yabbforum.com/community/YaBB.pl?num=1244256890/#3
http://www.yabbforum.com/community/YaBB.pl?num=1242796371/#5

Or did you mean the other dozens of feature suggestions I didn't comment on?  Or the other dozens over the years I have supported?

I don't get to "grind" anything to a halt, I keep telling you that but I guess you think I pull levers behind the curtain or something.  All I can do is state an opinion and why, that's it.

I don't have to "deal" when I think something is a bad idea.  I already told you I have a reason when I state I don't think something is a good idea to be added to base code, or implement as described.  I feel no obligation to compromise what I think, especially when I'm told my input is on one hand "irrelevant" (assuming you mean the ones I was not confused on what you meant) and "a straw man argument," and on the other hand that you will now be so kind as to gracefully tolerate it in some way as part of a "deal."

I state my opinions factually when options are posted for consideration.  I offer reasons why, I don't just say "bad idea."  To you, I guess that's lecturing, but to me it isn't meant to be a lecture, it's meant to give the reader an idea of why I think as I do.  I don't make the decisions here; I can only give an input.  When I spot something that I believe will cause problems down the road, I will speak up.  Except for your suggestions, since you don't apparently want it the way I give it.  I've met many people in my time who don't like to learn from the mistakes of others or believe others when they have experienced the consequences of another like decision made on a different day.  You may be one of those, I don't know you well enough to tell, and if so it's probably best to just let you make the same mistakes in order that they become valid to you.


 
 
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 Reply #18 - Jun 27th, 2009 at 4:10am
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cepheid 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
Nothing nefarious about it.

Unfortunately YaBB does not say whether one is ignoring everyone or a specific user (which is probably for the best since it respects the user's privacy), so I had no way of knowing whether it was "nefarious" or not and thus decided not to make conjecture.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
Ground to a halt... like these you mean?

Those are two examples where you supported the idea, although in the second case you started off by talking about banning AOL members, etc... which was not what I had stated in the OP.  It is things like your first post in that thread to which I am referring re: misunderstandings or bringing up issues which may not be relevant to the situation at hand; there have been more than just 2 threads where that has come up.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
Or did you mean the other dozens of feature suggestions I didn't comment on?Or the other dozens over the years I have supported?

Please note that I didn't say you always shoot down my ideas or anyone else's ideas; I said you often did it, and I was referring specifically to my threads, which I think you'll find is the case if you care to review all the previous threads (which I am not suggesting you do - it obviously takes time and merely furthers this argument).

OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
you will now be so kind as to gracefully tolerate it in some way as part of a "deal."

The deal isn't that I would gracefully accept it; the deal is that we would both word our objections more carefully so as not to come across so... harshly.  Constructive versus destructive criticism.  It is possible to get across the same message in a positive voice versus a negative one.

To take the IP-log thread as an example, in your very first post you said: "Does that mean you'd ban every AOL user?"  Instead of jumping right down my throat, you could instead have said, "There could be cases where changing IPs are perfectly normal; if you plan on using this to ban people, you should take that into consideration."  I hope you can see the difference between those two... in the first case, you immediately jump to a worst-case scenario sparked by a misunderstanding of my intent; in the second, you would politely state a possible problem without hyperbole and without jumping to any conclusions.

I don't think I'm thin-skinned - far from it - but the reason we're in this mess is because both of us are forceful about stating our opinions and we don't take guff from anyone.  I'm not saying we should sugarcoat our responses to one another; I'm saying that instead of saying something like, "That's a horrible idea because <X>," you could say, "<X> might cause a problem; what if we instead did <Y> ?"  That way you're also contributing to the solution instead of just shutting down the idea.

Yes, I could, and should, do the same.  And I've tried, such as by explaining that various preferences could be enabled or disabled by default, could be enabled or disabled by the admin, could be coded in a way that minimizes server impact, etc.  You didn't seem to like any of those alternatives.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
I offer reasons why, I don't just say "bad idea."

Yes, but there's a difference between offering a reason, and offering a reason plus a thoughtful alternative.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
To you, I guess that's lecturing

No, I have absolutely NO problem with being told something's wrong and why.  The "lecturing" refers to the sardonic and seemingly (even if that is not your intent) condescending tone of your message, not to its content.

OH Eng wrote on Jun 27th, 2009 at 2:05am:
you don't apparently want it the way I give it.

If you'd be willing to give it constructively, per the above, then I have no problems at all.  I would much rather be told there's a problem and offered an alternative suggestion that addresses the problem than be told there's a problem and "figure it out or don't do it."  I hope you can see what I mean here.

Please, DO comment on my suggestions, patches, or what-have-you.  I just ask that if you have objections or concerns that you either offer an alternative suggestion, or at the very least phrase your objections both constructively and without hyperbole.  Is that not a reasonable request?

Regardless, I think we should either take this to PM or drop it entirely, because this is clearly between the two of us and is of course completely off-topic from the original intent of this thread.  We've said our pieces... hopefully we can come to a mutual understanding that involves collaboration, not antagonism - on both sides.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2009 at 4:14am by cepheid »  
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 Reply #19 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 3:24pm
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deti 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
New Setup.pl in SVN.

Language, email and time format are now overtaken from setup settings into the admin .vars file.
 
Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
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 Reply #20 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 6:59pm
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cepheid 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
Thanks deti.  Please see also Reply #3, there's a bug in how the admin displayname gets populated into memberinfo.txt.
 
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 Reply #21 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 7:43pm
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deti 
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Re: admin email incorrect after setup
New
Setup.pl

Members/memberinfo.txt

in SVN.

@ cepheid
Can you test a clean install please? Thanks!
« Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2009 at 7:50pm by deti »  
Was immer Du tun kannst
oder erträumst tun zu können,
beginne es.
Kühnheit besitzt Genie,
Macht und magische Kraft.
Beginne es jetzt.
Whatever you can do
or dream you can,
begin it.
Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it.
Begin it now.
J. W. Goethe
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