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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Y3 Folders (Read 9,605 times)
Jet Li
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #13 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 7:53am
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cepheid wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:55am:
So all the other forum settings, e.g. related to user permissions, display settings, spam settings, etc., would be in the DB?

yes it would be. Step by Step. If we Devs have time working on it. Currently we waiting for Matt. I personally wait 1 week about my work to test my Eventcal Setting. Cry
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2009 at 7:53am by Jet Li »  

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cepheid
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #12 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:55am
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:45am:
We will probably remove all but the most basic settings (db login info and maintenance mode stuff) from the configuration file

So all the other forum settings, e.g. related to user permissions, display settings, spam settings, etc., would be in the DB?  I guess that doesn't really add much overhead, since the DB has to be queried for the majority of the data (user info, board info, message info) anyway.
  
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Matt Siegman
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #11 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:45am
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cepheid wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:40am:
Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:30am:
that folder only gets used when we use a file-based backend

Well, the Settings.pl file is stored there.  That can't be in the DB, so is there someplace else it can go?

We will probably remove all but the most basic settings (db login info and maintenance mode stuff) from the configuration file and that would probably be stuck into data. We can't move the paths config because it tells us where the data directory is Smiley
  

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cepheid
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #10 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:40am
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:30am:
that folder only gets used when we use a file-based backend

Well, the Settings.pl file is stored there.  That can't be in the DB, so is there someplace else it can go?

Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:30am:
We'll see.

Obviously it's not my decision.  I just think it would be the best option for keeping as much together as possible.  IMHO, it's less confusing to people to have things "packaged" if possible, and since I don't see any programmatic reason for the templates to be in cgi-bin, I just think that would make it easier for users.  Also IMHO, the fewer user-configurable files that we put in cgi-bin, the better, because that way users trying to customize their forum won't have to go into the cgi-bin directory and possibly mess something else up.  (Obviously, every file is really user-configurable, but I think you know what I mean... files that the user is "encouraged" to modify.)

(Not trying to be a pest, just making sure I explain myself. Smiley)

Perhaps a template-maker like OH Eng would like to chime in from the user/template-maker perspective?
  
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Matt Siegman
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #9 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 4:30am
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cepheid wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:21am:
Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:07am:
Renaming Variables to data is probably a good idea, but just about everything in there has to go away. If we don't lose it, our users will think we're lying about actually using the DB.

Well, not everyone will be using the DB, right?  Those who opt for flat-file need stuff in that folder.  If you're using SQlite, then the DB file can go in that folder.  I wouldn't worry about users thinking you're lying... what matters is that stuff works.
That's what I was implying: that folder only gets used when we use a file-based backend. Quote:
Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:07am:
Template files could probably go in public_html, but it just seems weird to me. I don't know if there is a good reason or not.

I'm not sure why that seems weird; the templates are basically HTML, just not "regular" HTML.  Putting them in the webroot seems logical to me, anyway, especially because them the template folder is one complete package: HTML templates, css files, JS files (if they differ by template), and images, all in one location.  There's no programming reason to split them up, so my suggestion is to put them all together.

We'll see.
  

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cepheid
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #8 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:21am
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:07am:
Renaming Variables to data is probably a good idea, but just about everything in there has to go away. If we don't lose it, our users will think we're lying about actually using the DB.

Well, not everyone will be using the DB, right?  Those who opt for flat-file need stuff in that folder.  If you're using SQlite, then the DB file can go in that folder.  I wouldn't worry about users thinking you're lying... what matters is that stuff works.

Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:07am:
Template files could probably go in public_html, but it just seems weird to me. I don't know if there is a good reason or not.

I'm not sure why that seems weird; the templates are basically HTML, just not "regular" HTML.  Putting them in the webroot seems logical to me, anyway, especially because them the template folder is one complete package: HTML templates, css files, JS files (if they differ by template), and images, all in one location.  There's no programming reason to split them up, so my suggestion is to put them all together.
  
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Matt Siegman
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #7 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:07am
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I like DataSource better then DataManager Tongue

Renaming Variables to data is probably a good idea, but just about everything in there has to go away. If we don't lose it, our users will think we're lying about actually using the DB.

Template files could probably go in public_html, but it just seems weird to me. I don't know if there is a good reason or not.
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:08am by Matt Siegman »  

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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #6 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 11:07pm
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:49pm:
DataSource implies that you're connecting to something, i dunno. I just like it more than Data?

If that directory is intended to contain code or abstraction devices for processing the data, sure... if it's intended to store the actual data, then I think it should be called Data. Smiley  If the former, though, then how about DataManager?

If the Variables directory remains to hold various settings and other data (e.g. members/boards/messages when stored in flatfile/sqlite rather than on the DB server) then it can be renamed Data, since that's really what it is.

Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:49pm:
Styles implies that it will have graphics, css, etc. Templates pretty much need to stay in the cgi-bin, but to make the location more predictable they should be named the same.
I don't see why templates need to stay in cgi-bin; they aren't .pl or .pm files so they don't need to be executable, and as long as you have the absolute path, they can be read from the webroot/yabbfiles.  It seems to me that if you're going to separate code from display, then all display data can move to the public_html, and cgi-bin should contain only code or non-display data (e.g. members, boards, etc. if those are stored in local files [flatfile or sqlite] rather than on the DB server [mysql, sql, etc.]).

Is there a reason the template files must stay in cgi-bin?  If not, I recommend the above, and just naming it "Templates" (because the styles and the graphics are all part of the template).
  
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #5 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:49pm
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cepheid wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:43pm:
Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:21pm:
DataSource

Any particular reason you don't just want to call it Data? Smiley

DataSource implies that you're connecting to something, i dunno. I just like it more than Data? Cheesy
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:21pm:
"Templates" should be renamed to "Styles"
But we'll still have a bunch of templates - those aren't styles.  Or did you just mean the directory containing the css?  Actually, there's no real reason to separate them - the css and template files can both reside in public_html - so I'd recommend keeping the Templates name.

Variables could be renamed Data.

Styles implies that it will have graphics, css, etc. Templates pretty much need to stay in the cgi-bin, but to make the location more predictable they should be named the same. Does that make any sense, or am I losing my mind after 2 months of a business trip and writing way too much data abstraction code?
  

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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #4 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:43pm
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:21pm:
DataSource

Any particular reason you don't just want to call it Data? Smiley

Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:21pm:
"Templates" should be renamed to "Styles"
But we'll still have a bunch of templates - those aren't styles.  Or did you just mean the directory containing the css?  Actually, there's no real reason to separate them - the css and template files can both reside in public_html - so I'd recommend keeping the Templates name.

Variables could be renamed Data.
  
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #3 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:21pm
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OH Eng wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:35pm:
Since the code is going through the meat grinder, what about also reexamining the name of some of the folders?  This would be a good time to get rid of things like folders without a leading capital letter in their name, or duplicate folder names that cause confusion.  Perhaps change the yabbfile/Templates folder to yabbfiles/Styles or something like that.

I already planned on doing plenty of that.

Here's my plan:
"Sources" is going to be replaced by "YaBB3" (It's based on how Perl modules work, there isn't much way around it.) Messages, Members and Boards are all going away since we're switching to the DataSource data backend. I don't know what the Convert directory is. Help will move to public_html. Modules will be renamed to "lib" or something like that--to better indicate that they're libraries. I agree, "Templates" should be renamed to "Styles". Variables may or may not go away. Right now, I'm having the File and SQLite backends store data in Variables/database. We may want to keep that one around, but I'll have to think about it.
Corey Chapman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:40pm:
I would rather see folders go to all lowercase letters with absolutely no capitalization.  But I agree that we shouldn't have duplicate folder names.  It would be easier to install everything into one folder (combine public_html and cgi-bin) for those of us that want to without having everything as a sub folder of yabbfiles.

Unfortunately, as cepheid said, we can't really combine public_html and cgi-bin because a lot of host are configured against it. Why do you not want any capitalization in folder names?
  

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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #2 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:00pm
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Corey Chapman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:40pm:
It would be easier to install everything into one folder (combine public_html and cgi-bin) for those of us that want to without having everything as a sub folder of yabbfiles.

This won't work on any Apache server where the cgi context and html context are separated, which is probably most apache servers because that's the default setup (for security reasons).  In such cases, files in the cgi-bin directory cannot be read as regular files - they are either forbidden or passed through the cgi wrapper - and files outside of the cgi-bin directory cannot run as cgi.

In such cases, any "regular" files (like images, .js, .css, etc.) placed within the cgi-bin directory will not be readable by browsers and the forum will not display properly.

Some servers are configured to allow cgi context everywhere, and I'm not sure about IIS - it may allow that by default - but most apache servers will not allow this, so combining public_html and cgi-bin is entirely dependent on your server configuration.
  
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Corey Chapman
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Re: Y3 Folders
Reply #1 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:40pm
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I would rather see folders go to all lowercase letters with absolutely no capitalization.  But I agree that we shouldn't have duplicate folder names.  It would be easier to install everything into one folder (combine public_html and cgi-bin) for those of us that want to without having everything as a sub folder of yabbfiles.
  

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OH Eng
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Y3 Folders
Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:35pm
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Since the code is going through the meat grinder, what about also reexamining the name of some of the folders?  This would be a good time to get rid of things like folders without a leading capital letter in their name, or duplicate folder names that cause confusion.  Perhaps change the yabbfile/Templates folder to yabbfiles/Styles or something like that.

  

 
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