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chillipepper
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Database and flat files
Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:48pm
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can move this post to anywhere if in wrong secton..

Hi Yabb3 Team,
I host my own little forum on my own server,apache etc.
from what i read is Yabb3 will have a database.but will yabb3 still run in flat file.if so what will i miss if i dont have database ver of yabb3.
is it worth me learning about mysql or stay the same,my forum is small so is it worth installin database???
Little more understanding would be great..
Cheers
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:53pm by chillipepper »  
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Matt Siegman
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #1 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:56pm
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Well, we aren't really far enough in the process to give you concrete answers, but in general:

MySQL will be faster than a flat-file storage method. This requires mysql, DBI and DBD::mysql to be installed on the server, as well as a database setup within mysql to store the data in.

SQLite is another kind of database. It stores the data in files much like flat-files, but has a program that handles all the work like MySQL. If you don't have MySQL, this would be the ideal option if it's available. This will require DBI and DBD::SQLite to be installed on the server.

Flat-file will probably be slower than the other two options, mostly because it's implemented in pure Perl. It will always be available as a last resort.


So, you don't have to use MySQL or SQLite if you are running a forum. If your forum is very small, it probably won't matter much. If it grows, you will probably need to switch to using MySQL or SQLite to handle things. I suppose this means that we'll have to write a tool that will convert the data between the various storage methods... I didn't even think about that....
  

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xnoddyx
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #2 - May 24th, 2010 at 6:49pm
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Matt Siegman wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:56pm:
we'll have to write a tool that will convert the data between the various storage methods... I didn't even think about that....

i was thinking as well you sed Quote:
write a tool that will convert the data between the various storage methods
can this be ues to backup Database to flat files as well as i have been on forums in the past where there Database corrupted and the Database backup just wont restor proply
and thay have had to start from new so think it mite be good if you can backup Database to flat files just a thort i had what do you think of it?
  

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Matt Siegman
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #3 - May 25th, 2010 at 10:41pm
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Any database backup will technically be to a flat file, but it wouldn't necessarily be to the YaBB structure. If you can't restore from an SQL dump, then it probably wouldn't convert into a valid YaBB FF system anyway.
  

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BjB
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2010 at 12:10pm
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Not using DB's are the whole reason I use YaBB. If you start doing this unreliable rubbish with DB's you might as well use something like vbulletin or simplemachines. Don't worry about load time, it's about being reliable and restorable.

My 10c
  
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Captain John
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2010 at 3:30pm
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we're keeping the flat file option ... but (sorry) a majority "wants" a sql db option.
  
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BjB
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #6 - May 28th, 2010 at 1:16pm
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Quote:
we're keeping the flat file option ... but (sorry) a majority "wants" a sql db option.


I must just be old skool Sad I love the fact the yabb can run off a thumb drive on a basic apache structure with no outside setup of sql DB setup. This means I can run it from a smart router freebsd with a mass storage device for a drive. It makes it portable across backups and restorable in a flash (literally Smiley ) As long as I still have the option for flat files then I guess it's ok  Wink

Keep up the good work fellas  Cool

My 486 DX2 salutes you!
  
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Matt Siegman
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #7 - May 28th, 2010 at 4:04pm
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A couple of things:

Databases are -more- reliable when done properly. Most people set them up completely wrong. There is a reason that 90% of the big business in the world have huge contracts with companies like Oracle.

You can always make a text dump of your database. We will have something in there allowing you to do this. Text dumps of databases are no less reliable than a flat file data structure. The problems only occur if there is corruption somewhere, which can happen with flat files too.

Fun fact: simplemachines is the new name for YaBB SE. Guess where that came from Wink
  

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JonB
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #8 - May 28th, 2010 at 8:09pm
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Matt and the Captain are both right.

Databases are more reliable than flatfile systems. They are also a bigger learning curve, and next to impossible to fix if not backed up properly. That was the 'root', I think of Matt's comment about dumping the SQL file (that's how SQL backups happen) -- The output of a backup/dump is a .SQL file that contains the SQL statements required to re-initate the database instance from the ground up.

This is what I am working on -- the infrastructure needed to get folks ready to work on a database driven system.

Good Luck to all
Smiley
  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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The Boy
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Re: Database and flat files
Reply #9 - May 29th, 2010 at 7:07pm
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BjB wrote on May 27th, 2010 at 12:10pm:
Not using DB's are the whole reason I use YaBB. If you start doing this unreliable rubbish with DB's you might as well use something like vbulletin or simplemachines. Don't worry about load time, it's about being reliable and restorable.

My 10c

Currently, with the flat file system, a full search of my forum takes in the region of 15mins - most users would have hit refresh long, long before that, creating extra load on the server.  Flat files are convenient, but desperately inefficient when you scale up a forum.

Also, I'm surprised you are suggesting RDBMS are unreliable, yet use flash - one of the most unreliable mid/long (and not great at short) term storage mediums out there Shocked


We all have different requirements from the software.  For me, performance for a given server spec is key for my fairly large forum - to the point I am considering a switch to other software due to the YaBB3 delays (and communications about it), despite the hassle of converting...
  
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