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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Public Perspective (Read 14,201 times)
Corey Chapman
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #22 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 6:07am
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It's almost identical to the GPL but modified ever so slightly to better fit the project. A lot of free open source projects do this because the standard GPL is sometimes too general.  You can basically call it GPL though.  The premise is still the same, and honestly does the license really matter?

If you read the license you would know this.  YaBB can be modified by anyone and used for their own purpose.  They cannot "sell" it unless they add value to the software in its current form.  They just have to leave copyrights in plain sight where due.  That's all we've ever asked, and that's what GPL asks.  YaBB has been completely ripped off in violation of GPL (take E-Blah's original source code and "new" features later on or YaBB SE aka SMF's original templates and graphics).  

This whole discussion of paying to change the filename is a new one.  YaBB never had this until August of this year when users just like you suggested it.  Nobody has purchased it to date.  The "commercial" license to remove all copyrights and credits used to be purchased a couple times a year, but it has not been purchased in a long time.

In the end... still free.  Still open source.  What's your issue?
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2010 at 6:08am by Corey Chapman »  

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Carsten
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #21 - Oct 15th, 2010 at 9:59pm
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At least it's a good thing you did not waste too much of your time on this project. Millions of users are all the support we need. Too bad we can't live up to your standards. Anyway, have a nice life Lopa  Smiley
  
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Lopa
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #20 - Oct 15th, 2010 at 8:42pm
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I don't know why I assumed that YaBB was anything other than GPL - But it probably helps to explain why it's lacking in support.

Like a lot of others, I only give my time freely in support of GPL projects - Which as you've made clear, YaBB isn't.

Shocked

So I'm out of here!

  

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Corey Chapman
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #19 - Oct 15th, 2010 at 2:40pm
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And that is why YaBB is not and has never been GPL Wink

It is a modified version of the GPL called the YaBB Public License - YPL.
  

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Lopa
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #18 - Oct 15th, 2010 at 9:56am
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Corey Chapman wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 4:25pm:
Honestly, I don't expect many if any people to purchase the file renaming new license option.  If they do, then hey it's less out of my pocket to support YaBB.


One cannot release something under the GNU/GPL and then add stipulations to it to suit their own purpose.?

The GPL is the GPL and if you don't agree with it, then by all means write your own license and stop using the name/phrase "GPL" with YaBB etc. Which of course would have you dropped from the likes of Sourceforge and/or any other dedicated GPL promotional sites.

As for possibly going to a different licence to suit the new flavour of the month/year - One cannot make that retrospective to include previous versions of YaBB in any way whatsoever as it applies ONLY from the time it is announced. This protects ANY previous versions of YaBB from being "Taken Over" by Commercialisation in any shape or form, and does not grant them the right to stop the GPL versions from being further developed under the GPL by anyone who wishes too.  Cool

Reality Bites:

Anyone under the GPL can rewrite and or upgrade YaBB and release it as something else, providing they retain all copyright's and credits where due, and have at least the minimum "Based on YaBB" in public view.

The GPL only asks that people respect other peoples work and effort by leaving credits and copyright's intact, adding one's own changes to scripts etc to not reflect possible problems back to the original author - - - - No One has to ask to change anything - No One has to pay to change anything if they don't want too - That's what the GPL is Really all about.

« Last Edit: Oct 15th, 2010 at 10:31am by Lopa »  

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tester20080326
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From a different perspective
Reply #17 - Oct 3rd, 2010 at 5:04pm
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Well, I do not have an opinion on removing or retaining the fee, but maybe the following perspective will help.
I know that many designers, and more importantly site operators do not like to keep standard names of scripts.  The reason for changing the name of a cgi/script is to not allow robots to easily find the script.  Why?  Well, two reasons at the very least.  One, robots look for well know script names to abuse (may it be spam, or other forms).  Two, if a bug is in the script, then this will prevent an abuser from locating a buggy script easily, and allow the operator time to take care of the bug issue.
With that said, allowing the changing of script names at will would be more appealing, and this would mean more people making use of yabb.  
  
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coldnex
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #16 - Sep 22nd, 2010 at 8:52pm
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Wow i like your thoughts on these matters though im not replying to all of them, i do think that the license for the file is needed, because i mean what difference does it really make?

If i were going into detail i would make a page that redirects to another folder which then in turn goes to my forum. For example in cpanel you can do this easily via redirects under the domains section i think Cheesy.
  
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The Boy
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #15 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 11:12am
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Thanks again for the reassurance, I hope that YaBB and I have a long, happy relationship, as I have experienced up to now Cheesy
  
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Corey Chapman
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #14 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 4:25pm
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Honestly, I don't expect many if any people to purchase the file renaming new license option.  If they do, then hey it's less out of my pocket to support YaBB. 

We will NOT start restricting boards per forum or anything else one could dream up like number of forums on a site, number of members/posts, or putting in ads. 

Like CJ and I have both said, YaBB has been here for TEN YEARS with the same license options the entire time.  This is the only new change and there are no more coming.

YaBB is not supported or run by a company and never has been.  The closest was the sponsorship by XIMinc which was really a front, since it was me running a small business and paying out of my pocket to host the project.  After losing way too much money, I have ended the business and am left with just YaBB.  That should make you less nervous than before all that went down.
  

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The Boy
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #13 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 2:58pm
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Quote:
The Boy wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:37pm:
but hearing of licencing restrictions creeping in, such as the script rename restriction, does set the alarm bells ringing.

  mmmm This has "always" been the policy.  Read the terms agreed to on the download page for a YaBB Installation zip.

Quote:
License Information YaBB is completely free to use. All we ask is that you keep the copyright in tact and visible on the bottom of your forum. This is to ensure that the project and all of the developers are given credit for their hard work. YaBB is distributed under the YPL (YaBB Public License), which is a slightly modified form of the GPL. You can read this license in the Quick Guide  distributed with YaBB. If you would like to remove the copyright, redistribute YaBB, or use it in any other non-standard fashion, please consult the Licenses page


   This has NOT changed in the 10yrs. of YaBB.  The ONLY addition to this has been the opportunity to use default.pl, index.pl or other, instead of YaBB.pl to call the forum from an url.
   This is a New option and still requires the display of the copyright and internal script credits.

I was talking about the new licencing restrictions on URL name. I was NOT talking about the copyright notice, that I believe should be there.


Its a new licencing restriction, whose only function is to raise money. Its not about creditting the developers with their work.  Whether or not a single individual should (or has the right) to make some money (or recoup some costs) on a larger open source project is another, unrelated debate.


The alarm bells are ringing, because I've been here before. The next step, in order to recoup costs/make money is the licence only allows 10 Boards on a forum, or it can only be for not-for-profit sites. Then the next stage is its entirely commercial.



As said earlier, the restrictions do not affect me - the URL is easily got around at a server level should I wish to (be a grey area on licence, as the script is still called YaBB.pl), not that I have any plans not to use YaBB.pl.  And I don't mind the YaBB (c) notice - in fact I am delighted and proud to be able to display it at the bottom of my site.
  
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Captain John
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #12 - Sep 9th, 2010 at 11:37pm
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The Boy wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:37pm:
but hearing of licencing restrictions creeping in, such as the script rename restriction, does set the alarm bells ringing.

  mmmm This has "always" been the policy.  Read the terms agreed to on the download page for a YaBB Installation zip.

Quote:
License Information YaBB is completely free to use. All we ask is that you keep the copyright in tact and visible on the bottom of your forum. This is to ensure that the project and all of the developers are given credit for their hard work. YaBB is distributed under the YPL (YaBB Public License), which is a slightly modified form of the GPL. You can read this license in the Quick Guide  distributed with YaBB. If you would like to remove the copyright, redistribute YaBB, or use it in any other non-standard fashion, please consult the Licenses page


   This has NOT changed in the 10yrs. of YaBB.  The ONLY addition to this has been the opportunity to use default.pl, index.pl or other, instead of YaBB.pl to call the forum from an url.
   This is a New option and still requires the display of the copyright and internal script credits.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2010 at 11:40pm by »  
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The Boy
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #11 - Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:37pm
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Corey Chapman wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 2:44pm:
I can tell you right now, the new filename change of YaBB.pl is nothing to get worked up about.  We've had this discussion off and on with the team over the 10 years and never implemented it as an option.  Now we have, but there have been no takers; there are rarely takers on the copyright removal (moreso the first few years but not much the last few years).  It has nothing to do with restricting via the license or going commercial.

I CAN tell you what you experienced won't happen.  The fact that I just dissolved my business XIMinc should give you much assurance to that fact.  A few big companies were working with me in the beginning when YaBB was the most popular to buy it out but that didn't end up happening.  There has been nothing since, and I don't expect that to happen in the near future.  YaBB TRULY is free and open-source and is staying true to its original intent.  I would think after 10 years, you'd realize that.

As far as your community growing past YaBB's limit, I'd encourage you to wait it out.  There are some exciting changes coming to YaBB, hopefully the database support being one of them.  Either way, we are going to be making some big leaps in the next version to play catch up.

Thankyou for the reassurance, but I heard the reassurance from Rob Howard before Telligent was formed.

I don't doubt your word, though, and its good to hear that it appears there are no current plans afoot to limit YaBB via licencing restrictions - but hearing of licencing restrictions creeping in, such as the script rename restriction, does set the alarm bells ringing. I'm sure I am not alone, and if I was looking for forum software now for a new site, this alone would make me look elsewhere  Cry.  In fact, its made me look more seriously at the converters to other software a bit more closely  Lips Sealed



I don't think I have reached YaBB's limits yet, not by a long shot, despite the modest resources I throw at it (its a VM running on a very busy ESX server, and has only been allocated 1G RAM). Fair play to the work by Deti and co when they implemented the big speed improvements around 2.3 (or was it 2.2?)  Smiley


  
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Corey Chapman
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #10 - Sep 8th, 2010 at 2:44pm
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I can tell you right now, the new filename change of YaBB.pl is nothing to get worked up about.  We've had this discussion off and on with the team over the 10 years and never implemented it as an option.  Now we have, but there have been no takers; there are rarely takers on the copyright removal (moreso the first few years but not much the last few years).  It has nothing to do with restricting via the license or going commercial.

I CAN tell you what you experienced won't happen.  The fact that I just dissolved my business XIMinc should give you much assurance to that fact.  A few big companies were working with me in the beginning when YaBB was the most popular to buy it out but that didn't end up happening.  There has been nothing since, and I don't expect that to happen in the near future.  YaBB TRULY is free and open-source and is staying true to its original intent.  I would think after 10 years, you'd realize that.

As far as your community growing past YaBB's limit, I'd encourage you to wait it out.  There are some exciting changes coming to YaBB, hopefully the database support being one of them.  Either way, we are going to be making some big leaps in the next version to play catch up.
  

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The Boy
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #9 - Sep 7th, 2010 at 8:39pm
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Corey Chapman wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010 at 4:20pm:
I agree the Permalink feature needs improvement, but at least it's a start.

What does everyone else think about the recently added license for changing YaBB.pl?

Having recently been 'caught out' by using forums.net for one of my sites, which morphed into Community Server, then slowly became mostly, then entirely commercial (yet I'm stuck with it due to other systems that link in to it), I am getting more and more nervous about the licencing restrictions, even though they do not currently affect my YaBB site.


And before you try to reassure me that won't happen, Telligent initially said there would always bee a free version for not-for-profit sites - this was true up until Community Server 2 (although the free versions were already severely limited by then), but then they completely went back on their word.


If that is the way YaBB is heading, then I need to get my biggest YaBB site -  http://www.omegaowners.com - migrated to something else before it grows too big to successfully migrate. YaBB does suffer poor migration support, both into YaBB (YaBB's problem) or out of YaBB (other software's problem).
  
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Captain John
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Re: A Public Perspective
Reply #8 - Sep 3rd, 2010 at 8:52pm
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Personally ... I think it (YaBB.pl) should be retained ... but fee is a little high for simply allowing index.pl
  
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