Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients? (Read 1,767 times)
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,810
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2010 at 12:07pm
Post Tools
mlaw -

Running mod_perl is a configurable option in most cases. Its a matter of setting the default Perl handler BY DIRECTORY in the Apache conf files, it can also be set with (AFAIK) with .htaccess files (although I have not used that technique).  So Perl.exe (the executable) and mod_perl (which is a Apache Module) can co-exist. You won't find mod_perl in the YaBB lists or Perl lists directly as its NOT a Perl module (written in Perl) - its an extension to the Apache process - httpd.exe or httpd that is loaded alonng with Apache - so it is part of the webserver - not a free-standing executable.

The question you should ask the hosting company is simple - 'what is the Perl Handler for this installation - it should be the Perl executable - not mod_perl.'

We don't actually know at this point (although it seems possible) that mod_perl IS the problem

Why there is no specific 'don't run mod-perl' instruction -

In most Linux installations, the cgi-bin folder is used specifically for running executables, so if you install YaBB to its defaults and change the shebang lines as directed, mod_perl can be running on the server = and = it will not affect YaBB, as it will not be the 'handler' for the YaBB files in the cgi-cin folder.

cgi-bin is not specific to Perl, it would also be used for things like FastCGI, php-cgi.exe etc. Its a framework for running executables to process requests on webservers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Gateway_Interface

Which brings up another two questions - were all the shebang lines amended when re-installing? and - in what folder are the yabb2 files located (it should be under cgi-bin) - unless someone has made adjustments to the Apache conf files.

I have a thought that if the shebang lines were wrong - and - mod_perl was set as the server default handler for .pl files - mod_perl would try to run YaBB (albeit poorly).  

I would just go forward finding a new host, as they (the hosts) seem to have garfed this up pretty good. I might suggest a managed VPS as a pratical solution, rather than a dedicated server.

Good Luck
Cool



« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2010 at 12:17pm by JonB »  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Jet Li
Legacy Dev Team
Development Team
****
Offline



Posts: 6,588
Location: Hong Kong
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2010 at 6:06am
Post Tools
YaBB 3.x will support mod_perl, I hope. For current YaBB 2.x we suggest to turn off mod_perl.
  

PM me for YaBB Installation Service
Back to top
WWWGTalkFacebook  
IP Logged
 
mlaw
YaBB Newcomer
*
Offline



Posts: 5

None
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2010 at 2:42am
Post Tools
Hang on a sec. I've just checked out three hosting servers that I look after, and all have mod_perl installed by default (presumably as it's a good thing). Two of these servers are running YaBB forums without problems, and have been for a while.

Now you're saying that something that modern servers seem to have installed by default has potential to cause YaBB to fail and take down a server?

Did I miss the "Warning - your server is running software that's not compatible with this software. Do not proceed with installation!!" message??

Just looked in Admin Center Module Check - Can't see any warnings about incompatible modules there...

Seems a bit concerning...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,810
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #8 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 7:13pm
Post Tools
NO NO NO

That is the problem!

AFAIK - YaBB 2.x WON"T RUN CORRECTLY WITH mod_perl

Perl has to be written in a specific manner to work correctly with mod_perl...

Jet Li is the authority, but I am real sure on this

turn off mod_perl

IMPORTANT PART FROM THAT POST:


If I remove the "PerlHandler ModPerl::Registry" line, it works. No idea why handling YaBB scripts with mod_perl screws everything up; but it does... I'll look into that.



That was my bad, I was trying to show standard YaBB doesn't work with mod_perl.  I didn't make it clear enough Embarrassed

Shocked

Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2010 at 7:21pm by JonB »  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,810
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #7 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 7:09pm
Post Tools
WELL - THERE"S a clueless host indicator -

YaBB is a flat file system NO MySQL connector.

DOH!

And as far as moving - GOOD IDEA!

Grin



  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
mlaw
YaBB Newcomer
*
Offline



Posts: 5

None
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #6 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 4:02pm
Post Tools
As for the server itself... well, the box it's on has been running multiple YaBB installs for over 3 years without incident, and YaBB has performed well.

We're not aware that anything changed on that box, so why a recent spate of outages are apparently something to do with YaBB does seem odd (especially when it killed their mySQL server!).

It sounds like Namesco Tech Support has officially given up, said they've done everything they can, but can't stop it falling over. When they see it crash, they'll be good enough to restart it, apparently, and they've suggested the client pays to get a new server - Support has put them in touch with their sales team!

After a 24 hour outage, and no answers from Namesco's Support bods - it should come as no surprise that the client's in the process of migrating from Namesco to Peer One as quickly as possible before the server falls over again and YaBB gets the blame!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mlaw
YaBB Newcomer
*
Offline



Posts: 5

None
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #5 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 3:52pm
Post Tools
Thanks Jon,

Not familiar with mod_perl, but checking the server using Plesk shows the following component is installed:

mod_perl      1.99_16-4.5

Your message implies this should not be loaded, but the link you added talks about a 6-fold increase when it is loaded, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_perl implies it's a good thing to have running. Sounds like they should keep using it, and not remove it. Could you clarify?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,810
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 2:03pm
Post Tools
Well, if it has been working, and the sites were not actively maintained - what does that say???

It says something bad happened at the server - and I'm guessing they have a mis-configured server now.

Do we know if this is the 'old server' reloaded, a fresh server or what?  Did you get a clear explanation of just what happened to the old server and its problems?

Given the reputation of YaBB for running on almost anything, I'm really surprised to hear a hosting operation having a hard time getting it running.  I have about 6 active YaBB's + some 'test only' forums running on Server 2003/IIS, XP/Apache, Centos/Apache and Fedora/Apache.  I have never found a machine that had Perl 5.8+ working and mainstream webserver running that won't run Yabb, hosted or homebrew.

As I typed that I thought of something -

One - make sure mod_perl was not loaded, YaBB is not written for OOPerl.  Getting over to OOPerl was one of the re-write objectives in the 'old' YaBB3 plan.

http://www.yabbforum.com/community/YaBB.pl?num=1288628446

If that's not the case -

Its simple enough to diagnose I think - let them do a clean install on a subdomain (meaning a hostname variant) - then there is no load, no data, no corruption possible.  If they can't get that working, I would call them incompetent.

Does ANYTHING work???

(JonB would be looking for a new host, and learning how to backup and re-install YaBB)

Wink
« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2010 at 2:03pm by JonB »  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
mlaw
YaBB Newcomer
*
Offline



Posts: 5

None
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 9:56am
Post Tools
Thanks for the replies so far.

It's a dedicated server, with no sharing (or so the provider claims).

The server hosts a dozen or so smallish domains. The 5 busiest domains all have their own YaBB forums.

As for traffic, last month, 125GB total across those domains, and under 20,00 UV.

They've been using YaBB since 2003, with no problems.

Looked at the fix - no maintenance was being done on the sites, so no chance this was the problem, but I'll get the fix applied as a precaution.

Apparently, names.co.uk is now saying that they spotted the problem on all sites running YaBB.

Any more thoughts on where to point the finger?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JonB
YaBB Administrator
YaBB Next Team
Operations Team
Beta Testers
Support Team
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,810
Location: Land of the Blazing Sun!

YaBB 2.6.0
Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #2 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 5:02pm
Post Tools
YaBB is not really calling itself - its a script and the 'index' page of the script happens to be YaBB.pl, and whenever it needs to do something, the POST/GET action calls YaBB with an action parameter.  This is typical of most scripts, so no-one should be surprised.

I am aware of only a single endless loop condition recently discovered (that takes a truly bizarre circumstance).

You can find that description and a fix here:
http://www.yabbforum.com/community/YaBB.pl?num=1289411368


AFAIK - an instance of YaBB.pl will be generated for each session - I base this on info from Spikecity (a former lead devloper) who maintains a large YaBB forum - I understand that each instance uses about 1 MB of RAM.

Fairly important - Is this a VPS (managed or DIY??) or shared web hosting? and the 'guaranteed' server config?

Do we know anything at all about their traffic levels? 

AND - OF course - was it working OK for some period?? - if so we can definitively point the finger.

My opinion is that the SE assigned to this resolution doesn't know too much.  Cheesy


Wink
  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Captain John
Ex Member


Re: YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 5:00pm
Post Tools
YaBB 2.5 AE is the most efficient running YaBB in many versions.  Of course it calls back to remain within the forum, this a normal occurrence with any forum.
  A problem with his host could be the very small memory installed, especially if this a shared server.  YaBB will and does run on a single server with less.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mlaw
YaBB Newcomer
*
Offline



Posts: 5

None
YaBB Calling itself / Maxclients?
Nov 15th, 2010 at 1:46pm
Post Tools
Hey guys...

Need a second opinion here...

I client I work for has just suffered a major server outage. He's struggling to get any concrete reason from his hosting company, names.co.uk - Here are four extracts of the messages he's been sent:


  • "The server was running so slow it was difficult to run any commands, what I did see was a number of perl scripts running "YaBB.pl"


  • "It has been noticed that some of your sites connect back on themselves, not sure if your code is meant to do this but this all takes up connections. So the problem could be in your code. We dropped your MAXCLIENTS to 60 and apache fell over so this proves that connections are being used."


  • "The visitors per hour is not the issue it is the simultaneous requests that is causing the problem most of the from the code calling itself"



  • "Part of their site connects back to itsself. If this is the case this would generate addition Apache processes."


Given he's been using YaBB for years without incident, does this seem at all plausible?

He's running YaBB 2.5 AE Build 1.22.2.4
Nothing untoward in the YaBB Admin errorlog
Server is an Intel P4 3.20GHz with 1GB RAM and Linux 2.6.9-89.0.29.ELsmp

Would appreciate someone to confirm or deny my own theory on whether or not this is a YaBB issue, and what I need to get the client to ask names.co.uk to provide to back their claim.

Cool
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top