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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does YaBB have a future? (Read 1,157 times)
The Boy
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Does YaBB have a future?
May 5th, 2011 at 9:22am
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The lack of any response to my question in the YaBB3 area about YaBB3 progress speaks volumes to me.

Coupled to the fact that the showcase site - this one - runs so desperately poorly, despite only being a small/medium sized site with few concurrent users, is YaBB being slowly killed off, intentionally or otherwise?


We know YaBB can perform reasonably well on much larger sites, so have to assume its the Sourceforge setup that makes this site run badly, but any newcomers potentially looking at YaBB would easily be put off by the performance. Add in to the mix that any googling about YaBB perfromance will bring up a load of hits where hosting providers have closed down YaBB sites due to script performance, and new admins will be looking elsewhere.

As far as I can see, YaBB3 development has come to a bit of a halt after some massive leaps forward, last word seemed to be a decision needed to be made by the project leaders as to which direction to go in, given the original plan didn't perform as well as hoped. Then silence. Lots of silence. No real svn updates for 2.5 months.


As a normal user, I can't see if discussions are going on about direction and future in restricted areas here. I sincerely hope they are, but given the lack of any feedback and progress that I can see, I suspect they aren't Sad


So, can some of the project leaders please add their view on the current future of YaBB. Has a decision been made on the YaBB3 stumbling block of Flatfile & SQL v Flatfile only v SQL only been resolved? Will there be a YaBB3? Or is the plan to let YaBB slide into Internet history?


Sorry to post this so publically, but other messages, private and public, on this board and others, have been ignored  Angry


No critism intended towards the 2 main developers who have been busy working on YaBB3 until this major stumbling block was hit, they have done some fantastic work, but given no leadership when they asked for architectural decisions to be made.
  
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depablo
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #1 - May 5th, 2011 at 9:28am
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Got to agree with the speed comment on sourceforge, sometimes its that slow to load I just give up   Sad
  

Taking a peek behind the mask Wink
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The Boy
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #2 - May 18th, 2011 at 7:11pm
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Hmmm, maybe the silence tells YaBBers all they need to know about the future of YaBB  Cry


*sigh*, suppose I'll have to start testing migrations to other forum software  Cry
  
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SimpleSimon
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #3 - May 18th, 2011 at 8:16pm
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The Boy wrote on May 18th, 2011 at 7:11pm:
*sigh*, suppose I'll have to start testing migrations to other forum software


Im also looking in to this.
I love tinkering and adding mods and I have been sat twiddling my thumbs for 6 months now  Cheesy

I love YaBB but where is it heading ??  Huh Undecided
  
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The Boy
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #4 - May 19th, 2011 at 6:06pm
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SimpleSimon wrote on May 18th, 2011 at 8:16pm:
I love YaBB

Me too Cheesy

SimpleSimon wrote on May 18th, 2011 at 8:16pm:
but where is it heading

Having seen YaBB3 development completely stop again, I think to the confines of history is the answer to your question  Cry
  
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The Boy
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #5 - May 31st, 2011 at 9:11pm
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I am utterly amazed that after nearly a month from this post that nobody from the YaBB project has bothered to comment on this thread  Shocked


PLEASE, somebody from the YaBB project answer:
1) Will there be another version of YaBB released?
2) Will that be in the next 3 months?


Will any moderator try to ensure the project leaders are aware of this thread, and ask them to respond.  If the project leaders want to stop any further development, or have no desire/will/time to steer the project, thats fine, but can they just please say so, so everybody know exactly where they stand?


Thankyou.
  
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SimpleSimon
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2011 at 3:10pm
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.

  
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Runic
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #7 - Jun 5th, 2011 at 6:25pm
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Personally I hope this isnt the end of YaBB, granted I havent used YaBB since YaBB1 and when YaBBSE became SMF I also moved to SMF and have used it since, but for me I would never have met some great friends without YaBB (Jeff Lewis being one), and it be a shame to see a unique and long running software die.  Now I say unique simply because it is one of the few forum softwares that still use this style of coding, and not php etc.

But then with so little staff active it does make it look bad for YaBB, and seldom do you see any potential team members or anyone willing to stand up and say hey im willing to help by doing xyz.  It must put alot of strain on Corey and the devs.

But we can only wait and see and pray that it doesnt die off.
  

Bryan "Runic" Deakin
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Corey Chapman
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #8 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 3:33am
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Similar response to what I posted in the development site's forum below:

The current team is in its cycle of not having time for YaBB and this discussion is a tough and emotional one that is difficult to answer.  I didn't response quickly to the question of flat file versus SQL because my posts on the dev forum often go unanswered or take a while.  With an important question like that posed, I was expecting and hoping more team members would respond but they have not yet.

My first choice would be to continue working towards SQL and flat file support.  Why both?  SQL -can- be faster if done right and allows for many more features.  It's also easier to maintain.  Flat file -can- also be fast (we've proven that thus far) except for a few features like search and many things we can't implement well and have avoided.  It has advantages of being easy to customize/add features, fix issues, and install when a database is not available on your host.  People choose YaBB for that, but maybe that % is low enough to ignore.  Every software and technology has to make a decision to abandon legacy support, and maybe this is our time.

I'll admit that in my new job and moving halfway across the country, I have had very little time.  But mostly the lack of motivation and discussion from other devs has kept me from bothering since there is nothing going on to check on.

I have asked the question of the team, but nobody cares to answer on where they are.  YaBB goes through these phases every year, but this is certainly the worst.  I went through a huge push and many hours working last summer on completely rewriting every page of the site with new features, a new design, and a new host (primarily to avoid spending more personal $ going down the drain).  I was hoping this would breathe new life into the project but it failed.   Perhaps SourceForge's slow web hosting was part of that reason because it doesn't make for a good performance demonstration.  But is it worth my time and money to put YaBB back on a paid host?  I don't know and am not ready to take on that bet until we have an active team again.

The breakout of the easy to write PHP code and all the copycat (of YaBB) forums that popped up written by 14-year olds made it too easy and a no brainer to move away from YaBB.  At the same time fly by the night cheap hosts with poor servers were bashing YaBB for a brief bad performance that once we fixed was never erased from their minds.  We've been fortunate enough to have a decent following still to keep YaBB alive, but in its prime days YaBB was used by every band, company and actor there was.  Today, it's mainly only used by low budget and low trafficked private sites, with a handful of exceptions.

Can we come back from it this time?  I honestly don't know.  It's going to take recruiting which is not easy for Perl these days.  Lots of people are loyal to YaBB but don't want to give a hand any more.

We are so close (again) to making a really awesome version by far the best yet.  Performance has been greatly improved with Ajax, and new exciting features were added.  Database implementation was started and completion of that is the only thing holding us back (again).  If we can get this version out as I've said for years, I think we would be an exciting alive project once more.  But every year we don't get it out makes that comeback more difficult due to other systems' advances.
« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2011 at 3:55am by Corey Chapman »  

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smith21
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #9 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:41am
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Due to personal issues I have unfortunately not been able to get on my computer much. I still install Yabb and help others with their forums. It would be a great loss if YaBB disappeared down the toilet. I don't have the skills to write scripts all I can do is help out testing and help other users with installation problems etc.  Maybe YaBB needs some new blood.
  

Cheers
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Runic
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #10 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 11:24am
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smith21 wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:41am:
 Maybe YaBB needs some new blood.


I agree with this, if YaBB had a team who are dedicated in pushing through and were active then it would flourish easily, however on a marketing stance having team members that are inactive (no offence intended to anyone) does not help the image, it would be better to show a small active team rather than a large inactive team.   I remember before I joined SMF Team, there was a time where we had alot of inactive team members and they were warned, and eventually there was a massive color switch from whatever color they were to Grey.  Even after the recent events that I am sure you all have heard about (specially thos who still speak to Jeff Lewis, Unknown, Joseph and even David) on January 2010, the team levels declined alot and alot of new talented people where brought in after the issues were sorted (or part sorted), and eventaully more of the friends such as myself stood up and said we will help.  Maybe its time somethin like a mass removal of inactive staff is what is needed and bring new blood in, only time will tell but end of day the decision is yours Corey.  (Btw nice to se eyou still about)
  

Bryan "Runic" Deakin
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Corey Chapman
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #11 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 8:55pm
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Trust me on the subject of mass team wipes - I've done it several times.  I will probably be doing it again soon, which is something I do almost every 6-14 months.  The problem is, in the current case (which has happened just a couple times before), nobody is posting or responding.  This means I either have to wipe almost everyone or hope that the most recently active (and a few long term veterans) are just on a break right now.  If I just cut certain people, I may be sending the wrong message to them when they are ready to come back.  There are certainly others that I can and will remove from the team without question.  I did a huge wipe last summer. 

The biggest challenge is finding the "new blood".  I ask for volunteers all the time both here and at SourceForge.  We've even posted requests on Perl.org and other Perl development dedicated sites.  Every now and then I get responses on those external sites but once I reply to them, I get nothing back.  Most times it's probably because this is not a paid job.
  

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Matt Siegman
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #12 - Jun 8th, 2011 at 11:15am
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YaBB needs some new blood, but it's hard to get Perlers for free these days. Most of the people you will find on Perlmonks, for example, are well paid consultants.

I'm impressed with all the work on this project since the last time I was here.

And here's the cold, hard truth as it stands:
* YaBB, currently, does not have much of a future unless some big changes happen
* Almost any large project can stay successful if the project team is able to adjust to new circumstances
* We have to be willing to cut out features that are no longer used, or that stand in the way of progress
* We have to give the people what they want.
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2011 at 11:17am by Matt Siegman »  

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Corey Chapman
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #13 - Jun 8th, 2011 at 5:46pm
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PerlMonks is where we tried before, and I'm guessing no pay is what stopped them.

As far as stripping things people no longer want, my guess is flat file.  Perhaps there are too many that want just SQL to ignore that as an option.  However, in the past and certainly still some people now chose YaBB -because- it was flat file and didn't require an expensive or sometimes difficult to setup database. 

But, I'm willing to make that big change if the developers would return and make it happen soon.
  

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The Boy
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Re: Does YaBB have a future?
Reply #14 - Jun 8th, 2011 at 9:36pm
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My biggest fear, now, is that all the momentum that had been built up over Autumn and Winter has all been lost due to these key decisions that need weren't ever made when they needed to be, 3.5 months ago.

I hope that momentum can be revived, but if I'm honest, I'm now pessimistic. A small glimmer of hope is that us YaBB users appear to have Corey's attention, and as Steward of YaBB, are looking to him to steer YaBB towards a successful YaBB3 release soon.

YaBB3 has been promised at some indeterminate time in the future for as long as my site has been running - 5yrs in exactly 1 month from now - IMHO, it must be released this time, and by the summer.  Further delays with the release schedule will, I believe, drive away a significant proportion of loyal YaBBers. Which will be a real shame.


As to Sourceforge, I think its done irrepairable damage to YaBB, in that it must have driven users away. Sourceforge is, IMHO, a grave mistake.

Due to an (almost) unique feature of YaBB to split dynamic and static content, I am able to run a 1.1m post YaBB, with at least 50 concurrent users most evenings (UK time) for virtually zero cost.  My static content is hosted on a high bandwidth cheapo host, my dynamic content is hosted on the end of a UK ADSL line on a dedicated VM, allocated modest resources.  And it runs a darn site better than this site.  See for yourself - www.omegaowners.com



As I've said on the dev site, whilst I'm still a YaBB user, I'd love to help with YaBB3, but my poor Perl skills preclude me from doing anything more than testing new releases with my large dataset. Sorry  Embarrassed
  
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