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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Segnette.com fishing forum (Read 26,265 times)
Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #30 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 3:34pm
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Very cool.  Smiley

For me personally, I find your installation of the beta version of YaBB to be very encouraging. I'm curious about how it progresses.

I see that members of your old and current forum can switch over to your new forum with a link that you've provided. Does this mean you intend to keep your old forum as it is by maybe archiving it when your new forum is ready for the transition? Or are you simply going to move your messages over with your membership base as well?

I'm curious about this because at some point I'll most probably want to upgrade to YaBB's newest version when it's ready with a stable version. However, in my case, I may want to archive our current forum so that all the links can remain workable from the pages of our main site.

A simple upgrade versus a new install would allow me to keep our forum's address, but upgrading a forum isn't an easy task.

Besides, as I understand it, YaBB becomes unstable once it gets to a certain size. If that's still true, then archiving older posts would make sense.  Archiving the forum would also keep intact the older posts, which are referenced throughout the main pages of our site.

Good luck with the fresh install of your new forum.  Smiley
  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

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westwegoman
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #31 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 4:35pm
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Once I feel comfortable with the progress of yabb3, I intend to move all of the old forum to the new one. I then will use htaccess to redirect the yabb2 folder to he yabb3 folder keeping the rest of the URL intact.

I only set up this forum to get used to it and play with the template. I'm not going to allow any registrations at this time for the simple reason, I don't want to have to worry about combatting spammers in a non active forum.

As far as size and stability, I am under the impression that the implementation of the database would solve this problem.

Someone please correct me if I'm assuming wrong.
  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #32 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 4:41pm
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I think you might be right about using a database. If this is the direction that YaBB is headed, then this would be good news if it helps to stabilize a large forum.

This kind of stuff is over my head, and above my pay grade.  Roll Eyes
  

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westwegoman
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #33 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 10:35pm
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The only thing that might slow me up is mods. I worked so long to get them on there and like all of them. By upgrading, I lose them. Some are built into YaBB3 but some aren't. The main one is the anti spam question mod. It has helped so much on stopping spam to my forum that I don't want to be without it. Maybe it could be considered for future versions of YaBB.
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2012 at 1:33am by WestwegoMan »  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #34 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 11:37pm
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As much as I know about YaBB, simply because I've been using it since 2002, there is so much more that I don't know.

Sadly, I'm not alone.  Sad

From what I've seen, particularly with the the installation of YaBB, I think it's pretty obvious that it's very user unfriendly. It doesn't need to be that way.

Ironically, simply because I once again got that dreaded 500 error when trying to do a fresh install, I checked to see if other forum software had an easier installation process.

To my pleasant surprise, I very quickly found forum software that pretty much does the installation process itself. It will CHMOD the files for you, too, which of course is needed to get past that dreaded 500 error.

Hopefully, YaBB will implement what amounts to self-installation for its forum.
Within minutes I had a new forum installed, and ready for use. Wow!  Smiley
  

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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #35 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 3:11pm
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By the way, mods are already built into that other forum versus us having to go through BoardMod while using YaBB.

Evidently, that other forum pretty much started off as a YaBB project, but developers split off to do their own thing with it.

Interesting. It's pretty much another version of YaBB, but with all the bells and whistles that this forum is trying to put together.

Preferring YaBB myself just because I'm so used to it, I'm hoping developers in this forum will get up to speed on putting everything in one place, and again, maybe a future version will enable what amounts to self-installation.

Then YaBB could really really cook!  Cheesy

  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

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westwegoman
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #36 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:20pm
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Aww... Heck, I wasn't going to say the name but I still had a copy of the forum that I think you are talking about installed and just got thru trying to navigate the admin center again. I can't find a thing in there. The SMF admin center is not very user friendly from what I have seen. I would much rather spend a little time adding a mod to YaBB versus having to cripple myself trying to navigate something that I would need to use often.

It annoyed me so much this time, I won't have to worry about it making my blood pressure rise again.... It's deleted!
  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #37 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:56am
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Maybe I'm biased in YaBB's favor, but I agree with you that the SMF Admin area is not as easy to navigate as YaBB is. On the other hand, SMF makes it very easy to install mods, and there are tons of mods available for use. It's all in one package that doesn't require membership in two different sites.

You just go to Admin/Package Manager. Then you just pick the mod you want, and click Install.

Keep in mind that SMF is really a beefed up version of YaBB. Roll Eyes Flattery can be nice.  Wink

Personally, I think that YaBB is so much easier to incorporate into a website than SMF is, i.e., with relative ease if you know HTML, you can marry YaBB and your site much more compatibly.

Of course, it finally dawned on me that SMF can easily be put into an iFrame, and be part of any site quite nicely.

Unfortunately, until I teach myself how to install YaBB properly again ... darn you 500 error ... I'm not capable of installing YaBB for any other domain.

Meanwhile, SMF allows me to very quickly put up a forum with its self-installation, so I suspect that I'll be using both YaBB and SMF at the same time, albeit for different domains.


Disclaimer: I do not have experience with BoardMod, but as I understand it, mods are very easy to install once you learn how to go through the process. Unfortunately, unless I somehow missed it, there aren't any 1-2-3 instructions to show how it's done.

I suspect that using BoardMod is just as easy if not easier than SMF once you get the hang of it.  Wink


YaBB Wish List:

1. Create a self-installation package like SMF.

2. Incorporate this forum and BoardMod so that it's virtually one and the same. That seems to be how SMF does it; separate entities concentrating on what they do best, but working through one central non-profit entity.

3. Rather than release new versions of YaBB, release updates to YaBB's software so that an admin can easily upgrade their forum.

Edited:
Edited to correct a typo ... again.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:58am by Bill Myers »  

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westwegoman
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #38 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 2:17am
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Bill Myers wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:56am:
but I agree with you that the SMF Admin area is not as easy to navigate as YaBB is

Well, I found out that being on a iPhone like I was earlier makes it even harder to navigate since some links do not work because of the drop down links that they have.

I just dont know. Im so used to YaBB and the features now that it would be hard to switch. Then there is the task of converting boards and each post. I've seen post around the net that it can be a pain to do.
  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #39 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 2:35am
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I don't want to switch either. I hate change!  Smiley

Evidently, SMF has a conversion package for YaBB, and it's pretty clear that many webmasters have switched to that forum.

Like you, I prefer YaBB, so I really only thought about switching when a few months ago it appeared that YaBB had ceased to exist. This forum was down for about 11 days I think.

As I understand it, Corey wasn't aware that this forum had gone down because he was busy with other work. Plus, he seemed to be about ready to quit on YaBB, and without him, this forum, and its software probably wouldn't be around for the public to use.

But as I mentioned before, SMF is really an offshoot of YaBB anyway, so there is that option if Corey ever decides to shutter YaBB altogether.
  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

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depablo
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #40 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 6:36am
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SMF has an option in the admin centre which allows a standard menu system in the admin centre.

Basically a little arrow that you click and it changes the layout.
  

Taking a peek behind the mask Wink
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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #41 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 7:50am
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depablo wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 6:36am:
SMF has an option in the admin centre which allows a standard menu system in the admin centre.

Basically a little arrow that you click and it changes the layout.

Wow! That was easy. Thanks.  Wink
  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

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JonB
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #42 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 10:07am
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I won't get overly technical on this, but that ease-of-installation issue is quite complicated and has roots in the choice of the core programming language.

Although both Perl and PHP are 'scripting languages', there is a significant difference. Perl is a general purpose language (like C or Basic variants) and PHP really isn't.  Perl is the core language for many Control Panels and Linux/Unix administrative tools and utilities. It doesn't need  a web browser to execute. But as a 'web scripting language', Perl usually runs as an executable under a protocol called CGI (there are two exceptions to that -- ModPerl and ISAPI).  It really means you are running a 'program' on a remote server, NOT pulling apart HTML pages. I won't get into "what are .php pages then???" beyond saying "They are HTML pages with little or no HTML".  

This effectively means that YaBB must be installed differently. The location of the Perl executable is not the same on all hosted systems, nor is the location of the 'DocumentRoot' standardized. They have to be supplied by the user, AND the YaBB 'launch files' have to be edited before Setup.pl can be run (that's the 'shebang' line issue). This is a huge impediment to creating a universal installer.

PHP does not face the same challenge. as it works  exclusively in the 'DocumentRoot' area of a server. This is because PHP began life as a language that was embedded n HTML pages -- which only exist (effectively) in the 'content' area of a webserver. Indirectly that is also why most PHP 'apps' are integrated with a SQL database (that will require some pondering  Wink ).  

I can tell you that among Perl based systems, ours is a very good installer. For a reasonable comparison, look at the docs for installing MovableType (a WordPress competitor written in Perl)  -- or ask Dandello  Roll Eyes

http://www.movabletype.org/documentation/installation/

BTW, MovableType (originally from SixApart) predates WordPress just as YaBB predates SMF and InVision.  I guess I should say I have installed/run/modified all the products mentioned here.

I'm not saying a better installer is not do-able, I'm explaining why its a different case than for PHP based projects like SMF or Wordpress (for instance).

Good Luck
Cool

Edited:
As to many of the other very valid points made in this extended topic "I have a plan" (which I am making some YouTube videos to explain)
« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:39pm by JonB »  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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Bill Myers
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #43 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 5:14pm
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Sorry, but the normal quote javascript function seems to be on a temporary glitch for me, so ...

JonB wrote:
Quote:
I won't get overly technical on this, but that ease-of-installation issue is quite complicated and has roots in the choice of the core programming language.

Thanks for the explanation. I really appreciate it. This helps to clear things up for me that I kind of knew about, but which I obviously don't specifically know.

On that note, while I appreciate Corey's leadership even though he's kind of an absentee landlord of YaBB, having JonB, Dandello, and the other regular experts/developers with YaBB gives me yet another reason to prefer YaBB's forum over other forum software.

Without this invaluable support, I would have left YaBB a long time ago.

I stand corrected in terms of self-installation, at least how I saw it.  Roll Eyes

Because of my error about self-installation with YaBB, what would help us normal folk would be an easy to read 1-2-3 step guideline to baby us through the installation process. We kind of have that now, but it's without any real answers or guidelines when errors occur.

For instance, with the 500 error, while there is some explanation for this, unlike SMF which has specific information about errors, and what to do about them precisely, YaBB leaves one hanging. You either know how to fix it, or you don't. Too bad!

Furthermore, like it is when mods are being installed, SMF will actually correct the errors for you if FTP access is fully given. And/or an actual list of every file that needs attention is presented for your review, and specific information is given about what to do next.

So in the end with YaBB, the reality is that only people with an above average intelligence of perl will be able to install YaBB's software. This is why so many people get stuck on that 500 error, and move on to other software.

This is also why people who initially installed YaBB, and who want to upgrade to a newer version move on to other forums. The upgrade process can seem daunting. SMF makes that process easy with their version of self-installation.

Solution? Put together a more thorough HTML-driven "installation manual" if you will that novices like me can use to install YaBB.


JonB also wrote:
Quote:
As to many of the other very valid points made in this extended topic "I have a plan" (which I am making some YouTube videos to explain)

This would be very helpful. Very!  Smiley


Bottom line: YaBB can be the greatest forum software on the planet, and I personally think it is, but if the majority of its potential users can't get it installed, or current users can't get it upgraded, YaBB will never be used on a large scale, and appreciated for what it is; a great forum.

Edited:
Edited to correct a typo.
« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2012 at 5:17pm by Bill Myers »  

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Derek Barnstorm
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Re: Segnette.com fishing forum
Reply #44 - May 1st, 2012 at 11:18pm
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Another one bites the dust. Sad

http://www.segnette.com/community/index.php
« Last Edit: May 1st, 2012 at 11:18pm by Derek Barnstorm »  
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