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Bill Myers
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Re: YaBB's problems are actually easy to fix
Reply #32 - Jul 9th, 2012 at 8:50am
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Please be patient, it will return to it's previous presence across the internet  Smiley

Not necessarily. Or more accurately, YaBB's current state of affairs will not improve unless the one guy who can change this decides to do something about it.

Or if rumors are correct, other YaBBers reportedly developing newer versions of YaBB will give the public another forum option.

Either way, time will tell.

As for YaBB's development, that can wait. What's more important in terms of the public's perception is to fix what's not working.

I agree with others who have said that this forum should be using a stable version; not "YaBB's Next Edition" since it's clearly not ready for prime time.

Ironically, what can look like really big problems are actually small problems that can be easily, and quickly fixed.

One example is YaBB's codex not rendering properly on this page. As a reminder, all that's needed is to download the language icons onto the server, and properly link them. That's it.

Another problem? Spam-bots. Many of us already know this can easily be stopped with a stable version of YaBB.

Regarding problems that have been reported here in this forum; about this forum; are problems that have been presented many times, and for a long time now.

This is the most shameful thing of all, and particularly embarrassing for those of us who care about YaBB; that despite easy solutions to fix these reported problems, nothing has been done to solve them.

Every once in a while we'll be told that we've beaten this issue or that issue to death.

Ya' think?!  Roll Eyes

And yet, these issues that are beaten to death are still left unresolved? You've got to be kidding!

Keystone cops.  Smiley


But then I have to look in a mirror, and say the familiar quote, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."

  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

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Derek Bullock
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #31 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 9:54am
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Bill Myers wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 7:00am:
I'm glad that Derek pointed this out, because in fact, this forum does actually operate as if it's a base forum for YaBB's developers. Huge mistake!

What this forum claims to be, and what it should be, is YaBB's Community Forum where support is given. In fact, as it's laid out for the public, it's just one of a number of sections that is part of the yabbforum.com site.

As I understand it, and certainly how it's presented to the public, YaBB's developers have test beds for YaBB's development, and Corey's even created special areas for development to occur.

Public perception is everything. Everything! So when the general public comes to this site, and to this forum in particular, they should only see a stable version of YaBB that is operating at its best.

Instead, what the public actually sees is a forum that isn't working properly. A forum that has a lot of bugs. A forum that gets spammed.

Seriously, is this any way to showcase YaBB?


It is easy sometimes to criticize. Remember YaBB is a free forum and relies in Perl Developers volunteering their time and efforts to keep it all running.  No one gets paid. Yes there are issues with this current version of YaBB to be resolved but but behind the scenes there are still developers beavering away while maintaining full time jobs an full time study. Unfortunately they are few and far between and even the Development Board, Boardmod and others are very quiet right now.

I have been a long time supporter of YaBB, for a long time provided support to the YaBB Community when there was little available.  I have installed dozens of forums for others.  It is a great community.

Please be patient, it will return to it's previous presence across the internet  Smiley

Sorry for the off topic matters but I am passionate about it.
  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #30 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 7:00am
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Quote:
It is the developers base forum and that is how it should remain for all to see.

I'm glad that Derek pointed this out, because in fact, this forum does actually operate as if it's a base forum for YaBB's developers. Huge mistake!

What this forum claims to be, and what it should be, is YaBB's Community Forum where support is given. In fact, as it's laid out for the public, it's just one of a number of sections that is part of the yabbforum.com site.

As I understand it, and certainly how it's presented to the public, YaBB's developers have test beds for YaBB's development, and Corey's even created special areas for development to occur.

Public perception is everything. Everything! So when the general public comes to this site, and to this forum in particular, they should only see a stable version of YaBB that is operating at its best.

Instead, what the public actually sees is a forum that isn't working properly. A forum that has a lot of bugs. A forum that gets spammed.

Seriously, is this any way to showcase YaBB?


Adding a little bit of levity here, if I've been in the wrong place for support since 2002, can somebody please point me in the right direction to get YaBB support?


Edited:
Quote:
There have been some great inclusions in the base forum over the years and they have been greatly welcomed. If anti-spamming can be developed that is watertight then add it to the base for everyone

I agree.

As for installing anti-spam mods in this forum, or any other stable mods that developers have written for YaBB, until a newer stable version of YaBB is available, of course this forum should install whatever enables this forum to be better.

That's kind of the whole point of mods.  Wink

Ideally, however, as mods are written, and proven, and then made a part of YaBB's core functions, I'm hoping that future versions of YaBB will have simple updates that admins can easily install.

« Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2012 at 7:15am by Bill Myers »  

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Derek Bullock
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #29 - Jul 7th, 2012 at 4:49pm
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For what it is worth I don't believe that there should be any mods on this forum.

It is the developers base forum and that is how it should remain for all to see.

There have been some great inclusions in the base forum over the years and they have been greatly welcomed. If anti-spamming can be developed that is watertight then add it to the base for everyone.

Mods on peoples own individual forums should remain at the discretion of forum owners.

My opinion only.


Derek
  
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westwegoman
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #28 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 7:15pm
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Bill Myers wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 7:05pm:
That happens to me every once in a while, but you can fix it easily enough. Just edit your post to insert the correct quote code (replace what's not working  ).

Oops. It was my error.  Roll Eyes

I checked for errors in the quote and could not find anything wrong.

I had accidentally checked the "Check this if you wish to disable parsing of ubbc tags and smileys" tick box when I posted. Duh...
« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2012 at 7:16pm by WestwegoMan »  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #27 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 7:05pm
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JonB wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:
Spam bots, contrary to what you may believe, aren't AI driven ...

NOT the behavior of a spam-bot. Its the behavior of a SEO Backlinker.

Thanks for explaining this. I appreciate it.

So I guess what we admins need to do is to install an anti-spam mod for spam-bots, personalize ways to deal with hu-bots, and figure out ways to manage backlinkers.

From my experience in our forum, backlinkers have almost always had IP addresses that are in the database of the StopForumSpam site.

In any case, anti-spam mods are what saved our forum from being shuttered altogether. That stopped all spam-bots cold. Anything else after that, be they hu-bots or backlinkers, they've been easy enough to manage; at least for now.

One step at a time.  Wink



WestwegoMan wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 4:18pm:
Maybe so but, you never know until it is tried.

Right. Not trying gives spam-bots an immediate win.



WestwegoMan wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 4:18pm:
Also, anybody know why the quote didn't render correctly in my last post?

That happens to me every once in a while, but you can fix it easily enough. Just edit your post to insert the correct quote code (replace what's not working Wink ).

The following is the correct quotation code:
Code
Select All
[quote author=65404141566D4A4A2F0 link=1341039293/21#21 date=1341335532]Place JonB's quote here [/quote]
 



  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

Note: This forum doesn't allow for us to freely edit our posts or topics to make corrections as needed, so please remember to look for subsequent posts if you see any mistakes or outdated information. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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JonB
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #26 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 6:15pm
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@ Bill -

Spam bots, contrary to what you may believe, aren't AI driven.  They can't pick non-standard boards within a forum, then create a halfway sensible text response and post it. Such as the backlinker's one on GoDaddy in the YaBB Friendly Web Hosts Board - "Go daddy is the most popular webhost on the internet. Contact their sales department for a site demo" or something close (my grammar is probably better).  OR any of the other responses that were made, as he/she pointed out "I'm not a spammer" - quite right - dogpoop was a DIFFERENT type of forum vermin...  A backlinker, who wants to leverage your site to create links back to their POS.

SPAM-bots can't read and interpret. They CAN fill in forms (their own) and make guesses at Captchas, they can't figure out the dynamics of a board unless someone maps it, and writes that into a configuration file. Its just cheaper to hire someone for a few cents a line.

Besides, now let's talk SFS - all of his/her IP's were clean on SFS, AND as depablo pointed out, they had embedded a signature spam link to an SEO backlinking operation.  That is NOT the behavior of a spam-bot. Its the behavior of a SEO Backlinker.  The backlinker wasn't the site owner, but a hu-bot, who gets paid in 'micro-money' for posting links.  That's a whole business brother.  Grin

Enough on why this wasn't a spam-bot.  (we do get true spam-bots that post, but it is rare)  YaBB has a solution for them (spam-bots), and that is why u-g-g (and others) no longer wander in. (Anti-spam Settings > Spam Definition Rule) Note how I had to deal with u-g-g...

Spam-bots always post to 'known' standard boards, and contain dozens of references to the same products often in the form of in-line links made with HTML.  "that's a SPAM bot".


Peace, over and out.

Cool

  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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westwegoman
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #25 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:41pm
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JonB wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:12pm:
Any question that can be easily Internet researched will always fail against a 'hu-bot'

Maybe so but, you never know until it is tried.

Surely it would have to slow them down. I will never be convinced otherwise since it has worked for me. My question has the answer right at the top of the page. Very simple.... Not 1 spammer has gotten by it from what I can remember.
Before I emplimented it, I was ready to shutter the forum. Spam bots almost won, but with my stubborn attitude, I refused to let them win.

Funny, I just got warned for speed posting.  Shocked

Guess I better slow down.

Also, anybody know why the quote didn't render correctly in my last post?
« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:45pm by WestwegoMan »  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #24 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:35pm
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JonB wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:12pm:
Any question that can be easily Internet researched will always fail against a 'hu-bot' that reads and writes in the target language (for obvious reasons).

You're absolutely right. A hu-bot can pretty much defeat an anti-spam mod.

In our forum when I was using it, I actually gave the answers to questions I presented.

To help us stop spam-bots, please answer the question, "What is 1 + 2" - (The answer is obviously 3.)

In any case, it's one step at a time.

1. Install an anti-spam mod to stop spam-bots.

2. Design a way to stop hu-bots.

Please keep in mind that other YaBB forums have been successful in stopping both spam-bots and hu-bots. Certainly, especially with you at the helm, this forum can do the same.

  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

Note: This forum doesn't allow for us to freely edit our posts or topics to make corrections as needed, so please remember to look for subsequent posts if you see any mistakes or outdated information. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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taxineil
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #23 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:33pm
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Well this has been an interesting thread so far,a lot of it beyond me,but we just advertised for a tech guy/gal among the members,got enough of 'em Smiley-there's no way I'll ever get code-I know my limitations Winkbut I've been looking through this site-its a real mine of information and I thank you all for it.neil

Smiley Wink Cool
  
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Bill Myers
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #22 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:24pm
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Disclaimer: I just learned today from a direct source that JonB does not have the tools and access to modify this forum. I had wrongly presumed otherwise because he's listed as an administrator.

As such, my sincerest apologies to JonB are offered. Sorry!



JonB wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 10:01am:
The little backlinker was a hu-bot not a spam-bot.  If anyone wants to tell me how an anti-spam mod would defeat a hu-bot, I'm all ears.

Wink


JonB, this is the annoying wonder of spam-bots, that they can easily fool even the most intelligent of people. But until this forum installs an anti spam-bot mod, you won't be able to see this firsthand.

As for actual hu-buts, and for sake of argument let's just say you're right about your conclusion here, almost all of them can be stopped cold with a quick check of their IP address at the StopForumSpam site.

As I understand it, although I don't use it personally, evidently there's a mod that automates what the StopForumSpam site does. I do it manually.

Also, please read through Merv's reply here as his suggestion might be a good one for Corey to try. He's done something kind of brilliant in his forum by asking the question, "What state is at the top of this page?" - He presents an icon of his state.

Every forum is a little bit different in the kind of traffic that comes to it. All Corey needs to do is to tailor his anit-spam mod(s) to make it work in this forum.

As for whether or not any of this will work here, that question can only be answered if an anti-spam mod is installed. What's shameful about this forum is that it doesn't even try to see if it works. Not trying is giving spam-bots a win.

On that note, please listen to the rest of us when we let you know that anti-spam mods work for us. So on our behalf, please advocate to Corey that at the very least, this forum should give anti-spam mods a try.

Remind him, too, that without a doubt you are very experienced at what you do, so in terms of hu-bots, they won't stand a chance with you.

I have faith in you, so I know you'll figure it out.  Wink



If you don't have success advocating to Corey that an anti-spam mod or two should be installed in this forum, I can try to convince him. My experiences with him directly have always been positive, and from my perspective at least, he always favors doing what's best for YaBB.

Surely Corey will want to do what's best for this forum as well.



Reminder: If or when an anti-spam mod is installed in this forum, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how little you'll be bothered by hu-bots, if at all.

But again, you against a hu-bot? So long hu-bots! A virtual smackdown for sure! Smiley

Edited:
Edited to correct a typo.
« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:27pm by Bill Myers »  

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JonB
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #21 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 5:12pm
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@ westwagoman

Any question that can be easily Internet researched will always fail against a 'hu-bot' that reads and writes in the target language (for obvious reasons).  When you can make a question unique to an audience such as "what came before 2 of 5?" - then you have a chance. 

This is one reason 'hobby' and 'special interest' forums and blogs often have really good outcomes with registration questions/anti-spam measures.  In one private forum I run with Admin approval turned on, its as simple as 'who sent you'?

That 'inside' info makes all the difference.  Kinda makes you think of the 'old days' of codes and passwords (think WWII) and makes you realize WHY they are called passwords...

Cool

  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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westwegoman
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #20 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 4:18pm
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JonB wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 10:01am:
If anyone wants to tell me how an anti-spam mod would defeat a hu-bot, I'm all ears.

No doubt, it would have to be a unique question related to YaBB. One way would be, since this forum is a support forum for "YaBB" forums, is to put an answer in one of the files that are downloaded within a YaBB package or ask "what is the release date for the latest stable version of YaBB?"

Would it work? I don't know, but it couldn't hurt to try. It might be a small inconvenience to legitimate users trying to register, but I would think that most users will understand.

I'm kinda just thinking out loud here, throwing out suggestions. I'm not saying that it would be the perfect solution for YaBB.

What I do know... It worked for me. From what I can recall, I haven't had a spam-bot or hu-bot get by the anti-spam mod since I installed it.

On my site I have included a question unique to my area but unlike YaBB, my site is not aimed at a worldwide audience.
« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2012 at 7:14pm by WestwegoMan »  
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JonB
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #19 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 10:01am
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The little backlinker was a hu-bot not a spam-bot.  If anyone wants to tell me how an anti-spam mod would defeat a hu-bot, I'm all ears.

Wink
  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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Bill Myers
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Re: Registration problem
Reply #18 - Jul 3rd, 2012 at 2:25am
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Other than JonB, the only other person who's currently in a position to install an anti-spam mod is Corey. That's it. Two people. So we get what we get.

Ironically, installing an anti-spam mod in this forum won't change YaBB's state of affairs.

Here's an analogy for you: It's been said that if you want to see how well a restaurant is run, take a look to see how clean they keep their restrooms.

Don''t get me started!  Smiley


Regarding the possibility that YaBB's anti-spam mods might be incompatible with the beta version this forum uses, that may be the case.

Frankly, there are a number of issues with this beta version, so it would serve YaBB better to be using an older stable version to showcase its site.

But hey, why change things by actually listening to any of us who care?  Wink
  

Morning, noon, or night, have a great one!

Note: This forum doesn't allow for us to freely edit our posts or topics to make corrections as needed, so please remember to look for subsequent posts if you see any mistakes or outdated information. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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