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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Hopefully this is the place to post it ... (Read 4,121 times)
Bill Myers
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Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Jul 30th, 2012 at 11:13pm
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Now I see what's going on here, and it makes sense why my posts are being targeted for deletion.

I've just been informed that the moderation team will be removing any of [my] posts that are considered to be criticism of the actions and decisions by the Administration and Moderating Team of this forum.

I'm guessing this might be considered one of those posts, although I'm still a bit confused about what's really going on. After all, I don't know what harm there would be in being forthright about it.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, the more restrictive censorship does kind of make sense.

  

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Bill Myers
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YaBB legend Carsten had left us ...
Reply #1 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:02am
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I suppose I can get in trouble for posting this, and I guess I should remember to take a screenshot or copy of it considering what's been happening in this forum lately, but if I can't be forthright about it all, what's the point of participating?

I'm still in a bit of shock that YaBB legend Carsten has decided to leave this forum, most especially since he came back to give it another chance after having been disappointed before. Of the handful of people who are/were part of YaBB, his presence, and support, is one of the reasons that I haven't left YaBB myself. Not to mention, he's obviously a brilliant guy.

YaBB cannot go on to be the success that it otherwise deserves if it continues to disrespect the very people who love, and support it the most, particularly the clearly brilliant minds who have given a lot to YaBB over the years.

If none of the moderators delete this post of mine, and one moderator in particular has already effectively told me he'd delete every post I make, then you folks can read this post straight from Carsten about why he's given up on this forum.

My first thought was that this may have partly been because of me, and because of all of the posts of mine that have been deleted of late. Had that been the case, I would have felt very badly about that, but as I understand it now, my posts aren't the only ones that have been deleted.

Evidently, if you say one bad word about this forum, your post will be deleted. Time will tell about this post. This would obviously be one of those times when I'd like to be proven wrong.

To anyone, and everyone who's been given charge of this forum, if you have any decency in you, you'll stop with the unnecessary censorship, and if you haven't been part of it, you'll do your best to stop it. It's a shameful act.

Reportedly, moderators were in part added to help stop spam, but to stop the very people who use it? What is going on here?!

Shame!  Smiley

Edited:
I just censored myself. You don't want to know. Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:47am by Bill Myers »  

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westwegoman
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #2 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:56am
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Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:02am:
I just censored myself. You don't want to know.

Censored yourself.... Thats just too darn funny.

On a serious note. Carsten leaving is definately a sad day for the YaBB community. A great loss!!!  Cry
  
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JonB
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #3 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 6:21am
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Bill -

Ask yourself - "why am I still here???"

Did you actually read the moderation policy???

"just askin' " (as you like to colloquialize)

I'll take that as a 'no' -

Wink
  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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Bill Myers
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #4 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 7:44am
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JonB wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 6:21am:
Bill -

Ask yourself - "why am I still here???"

Did you actually read the moderation policy???

"just askin' " (as you like to colloquialize)

I'll take that as a 'no' -

Wink

Not only did I read your moderation policy, but I posted my comments about it here in this topic of the forum back on July 13th, the very day that you laid down the law; your law I might add. Thankfully, that post wasn't deleted.

Please take this constructively, but it would help the YaBB community a lot if you would take a serious look at appropriate, and professional ways to moderate a forum. Just because you say it's so doesn't make it right. It simply means that you're the one exerting control, and people will either conform to what you want them to do, or you'll ban them from the forum.

You may be forgetting that this is supposed to be a public forum for an open source project.

Eerily enough, after I posted my comments about your draconian tactics, and I know I'm not using the word "eerily" in a proper context, what I predicated could happen has happened with Carsten's departure after he was once again disgusted with how this forum is treating its members ... and many of its mod writers ... and many of its developers.

He's hardly the only one who's abandoned YaBB, and I'm very saddened by this. I just hope he returns. I hope others will return. The thing is, YaBB needs to give them real reasons to return; not just talking the talk, but walking the walk.

So instead, what do you do about it? You get tough, and you get mean, and you get angry with some of the very people who care about YaBB, and who care about this forum.

From all of the great support that I've gotten, particularly of late because of what's been going on in the forum, I've been told I'm still here because it would look awfully bad if I was to be banned at this point.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if bets are being taken as to when I'll be banned; not if I'll be banned. A good number of my posts have already been deleted; even the most innocuous of ones.

But I see things more realistically.

More accurately, the only reason I'm still here is because you haven't banned me, plain and simple. I can't know what's going on in your head. What I know are your actions. They speak for themselves.

The fact is, at least at this time, you have control of this forum, so whatever is going on good or bad, it's on you. The forum community at large knows what's happening, and nothing you do can hide the fact that this can be a very unfriendly place for anyone who appreciates, and advocates for a truly open source project.

It's no secret that this forum is operated very poorly. Yes, I understand that you don't have full access to YaBB's files, but you nonetheless took on the responsibility of being the admin for this forum, so it's up to you to keep things operating smoothly.

Will deleting our posts make things better here? No. Not in the long run.

Will banning somebody like me who is simply stating the truth make things better? No. Not in the long run.

Will continuing to keep mod writers on the fringes of this forum help YaBB's cause? No. Not in the long run.

***************************************

If you've been able to read this far without hitting that delete icon, please try to work with me; work with us; and work with the YaBB community at large; not just with those relatively few people who blindly support you no matter what.

We all make mistakes. Please own up to them, and allow YaBB to grow.

The most ironic thing of all is that the valid points you've made about why it is that I'm such a detriment to YaBB's existence has been lost in the bigger shame of reacting to my faults in such a profoundly unprofessional way.

Yes, I am often long in my posts. Not good.

Yes, I overuse the editing function. Not good.

Yes, I'm not always perfect in the way I help people. Not good.

But my faults can be very easily passed over with a scroll of the mouse. YaBB's faults cannot so easily be dismissed. After all, I'm nothing to this community in terms of what's needed. But this YaBB forum is everything in terms of supporting its community.

So what I do wrongly is insignificant.

But what YaBB's Community Support Forum does wrongly is hugely significant.

Please think about these things without getting upset over little old me. I'm just a regular YaBB user who wants YaBB to do well.

In the words of Rodney King, ...

... oh forget it. What's the point?  Cry

****************************************

Thankfully, I'm posting here in the "Talk about ANYTHING you want here" section of YaBB. Then again, maybe that doesn't mean anything any longer.

It's your call Jon. Let's see how you turn things around for the better here.

If it's any consolation, I was recently very hopeful about YaBB's most recent energy to move ahead in a positive, and meaningful way, and you seemed to be an important part of making YaBB better.

But what's that quote? The more things change, the more they stay the same.  Embarrassed
Edited:
Edited to correct some bad grammar that I would prefer not to be quoted.  Wink


Edited:
In the edit box above, I had typed "band" grammar instead of "bad" grammar.

So yes, there I go with another typo.  Roll Eyes


« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2012 at 3:06pm by Bill Myers »  

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depablo
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #5 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:38am
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Well that was a read, especially on a mobile fone and the fact I'm at work.

I don't particularly like to pass over anyone's posts. The small problem for myself is the quotes and length of threads, I don't think there is any real agenda regarding yourself.
  

Taking a peek behind the mask Wink
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Bill Myers
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #6 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:48am
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depablo wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:38am:
Well that was a read, especially on a mobile fone and the fact I'm at work.

I don't particularly like to pass over anyone's posts. The small problem for myself is the quotes and length of threads, I don't think there is any real agenda regarding yourself.

About an agenda here to signal out me, and others since I've been getting some interesting feedback about others who've had similar problem as I've had, I hope you're right.

Time will tell.

To be perfectly frank, I think YaBB is simply exercising a bad policy versus having a specific agenda against any group of people.

Sorry about the cell phone thing. I know what you mean about it. That's why I try to break down my posts into more easily read smaller paragraphs.

On that note, I was in the middle of making another post when yours came along, so I'll post it after this one so that your cell phone doesn't blow up on you.  Wink
  

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Bill Myers
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #7 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:49am
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Despite my current disappointment in YaBB, I want to publicly acknowledge the obvious, that my debate and opinions of late have not been deleted as they previously had been.

Also, there are clearly some deficiencies in the way that I post, so without question I can use some really good schooling about it if I'm to be a better contributor to this forum.

I'll try to be better about it.  Wink

As for the deletion of posts, I can see how that can be necessary to keep a forum operating smoothly as it should, particularly in a support forum where actual support can get lost in the mess of unnecessary banter.

Even still, censorship can be a serious detriment to the health of a good debate, and it should never be done for personal reasons in a public forum.

Possible solution, and a suggestion: Instead of deleting posts, or effectively moving them out of the public domain, maybe a better solution would be to move posts to a section of the forum that is reserved for moderated posts that simply don't belong anywhere else.

It's not about free speech since that really doesn't exist in private forums, although public forums should have a much higher tolerance. It's about trying to do the right thing, and being transparent about it.

  

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Bill Myers
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #8 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 9:00am
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OH ... MY ... GOSH!
Can somebody please put me out of my misery?!  Smiley

After depablo's comments, I tried reading the long post I made on my iPod. Forget about it!

Actually, other than it being pretty boring, I didn't find it particularly difficult to read. But maybe it's because YaBB looks so pretty on an Apple product, even with the quotations and the edit window.

I guess I should take a look on a regular phone, which I think more people use these days versus an iPhone or an iPod.

Don't get me started on the iPad. YaBB looks sweet!  Smiley

  

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xnoddyx
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #9 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:04pm
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Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:49am:
Despite my current disappointment in YaBB, I want to publicly acknowledge the obvious, that my debate and opinions of late have not been deleted as they previously had been.


if you was that disappointed in YaBB you wouldn't be here.

Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:49am:
Also, there are clearly some deficiencies in the way that I post, so without question I can use some really good schooling about it if I'm to be a better contributor to this forum.


and i know you might not see it but some of your posts have been quite hostile at times and i know that it can be very frustrating at times with the bugs and spam here for me it's the post indicator bug  Lips Sealed but at the end of the day i just suck it up and get on with it as i know how this forum is at the moment and there's not much that can be done to sort it and also this forum is operating with what can only be described as a skeleton crew and i dont just mean team members but all of us that are here most days and but i'm not saying you don't have valid points as you do but when you keep going on about the same problems it ends up getting lost in some of your really long posts and it is like when my wife keeps on at me about something over and over in the end all you here is bla bla bla ... back to your really long posts some of them are like trying to trying to follow code as well you satrt to read it then have to pop to a post some where on the forum then read that go back to the start post just to get to another bit and then have to pop to a post just so you can follow it and so on
when you post do you relly need all of that info in it if you do can you compact it.

i have also seen some posts where i am like ah ok but at the same time if i was new here and looking for a forum i would be like WTF (excuse my french) and move on and not come back here

Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:49am:
As for the deletion of posts, I can see how that can be necessary to keep a forum operating smoothly as it should, particularly in a support forum where actual support can get lost in the mess of unnecessary banter.Even still, censorship can be a serious detriment to the health of a good debate, and it should never be done for personal reasons in a public forum.Possible solution, and a suggestion: Instead of deleting posts, or effectively moving them out of the public domain, maybe a better solution would be to move posts to a section of the forum that is reserved for moderated posts that simply don't belong anywhere else.It's not about free speech since that really doesn't exist in private forums, although public forums should have a much higher tolerance. It's about trying to do the right thing, and being transparent about it.


i have been pondering this for some time as we all know there are reglers here and some times some posts don't really belong in the open part of the forum what i have been pondering is that maybe there needs to be a part for reglers a part where you need 150 posts or so to see it

if i offend anyone i did not mean to and can you accept my apologies

Edited:
Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 9:00am:
OH ... MY ... GOSH!
Can somebody please put me out of my misery?!  Smiley

After depablo's comments, I tried reading the long post I made on my iPod. Forget about it!

Actually, other than it being pretty boring, I didn't find it particularly difficult to read. But maybe it's because YaBB looks so pretty on an Apple product, even with the quotations and the edit window.

I guess I should take a look on a regular phone, which I think more people use these days versus an iPhone or an iPod.

Don't get me started on the iPad. YaBB looks sweet!  Smiley

i will make a video of what it looks like on my phone for you
« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:06pm by xnoddyx »  

YaBB install help video
1. what yabb forum are you running and the url
2. describe in as much detail as you can what happens and also post screenshots if you can
3. please be patient we live in different time zones and have other commitments but we will help you
as bill and ted say (Be excellent to each other)
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xnoddyx
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #10 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:57pm
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YaBB install help video
1. what yabb forum are you running and the url
2. describe in as much detail as you can what happens and also post screenshots if you can
3. please be patient we live in different time zones and have other commitments but we will help you
as bill and ted say (Be excellent to each other)
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Bill Myers
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #11 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:41pm
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Okay, the quote feature doesn't seem to be working for me right now, so ...

From xnoddyx at 9:04 am on Tuesday, July 31st:
Quote:
if you was that disappointed in YaBB you wouldn't be here.

Exactly. As I've mentioned a number of times already, I try to see YaBB as a glass that's half full. Unfortunately, when legends like Carsten drop out, in part because of the problems that I advocate solutions for, there sure is a lot of spillage from YaBB's glass that is still half full for me personally.

I have a very big glass, and I'm generally a very tolerant and patient guy.  Wink

****************************************

From xnoddyx at 9:04 am on Tuesday, July 31st:
Quote:
and i know you might not see it but some of your posts have been quite hostile at times and i know that it can be very frustrating at times

I do see it, and for that I give a general apology because there must be a better way to address YaBB's issues. Sadly, however, nobody's really been able to convince the people charged with YaBB's welfare to actually fix the problems that never seem to get resolved (dramatic license on my part in using the word "never"). Never?

My hostility isn't intentional, and if there's a saving grace about my own failings, I have little doubt that Jon's continuing hostility towards me is also unintentional.

I mean, neither he nor I can be that bad.  Wink

But human nature being what it is, all of us at some point will fail to be good people. What matters most, however, is how we react when we become a bad person, however temporary that may be. Will we own up to our mistakes, and try to be better? Or will we dig in, and make matters worse?

***************************************

From xnoddyx at 9:04 am on Tuesday, July 31st:
Quote:
when you keep going on about the same problems it ends up getting lost in some of your really long posts

Yes, and that's the saddest irony of all; and even shameful on my part. The thing is, who among us will show the brilliance of inspiration that will get us past YaBB's dismal state of affairs?

Seriously. How many more years is it going to take for YaBB to be the leader of forums that it once was? Things are the way they are because of YaBB's current leadership, plain and simple. They have the ability, I think, to turn things around for the better. We've had a hint of that recently, so maybe YaBB can get back on track after having fallen down again.

Just get back up and do the right thing.  Wink

In defense of my failings, I mean all of us want to defend our actions even when we're wrong, I've tried pretty everything to get YaBB's leadership to respond to its community. You know, to do the right thing. Saying it nicely hasn't worked. Pleading and begging hasn't worked. What's left for those of us who care enough to continue trying is the guttural response of plain old fashioned frustration.

Saner people than me have long gone.  Cry

****************************************

As for what to do with posts that moderators deem disruptive; whatever; the easy answer is to simply move those posts over to the "Talk about ANYTHING you want here" section of YaBB. Then that person ... hint, hint, me ... can carve out of that moved post actual relevant data to replace what has been moved so that it's a proper post.

But censorship is an otherwise ugly, and shameful act.  Smiley

****************************************

From xnoddyx at 9:04 am on Tuesday, July 31st:
Quote:
i will make a video of what it looks like on my phone for you

Oh you bad, bad boy! You'd make a video of what my posts look like on a regular phone, and then you'd send it to me?

I guess that's medicine I'd deserve.  Smiley

By the way, did you notice how long your post is, and how you did what I like to do ... use quotes (thank you YaBB)? So I hope you know that it can sometimes be a difficult thing to rein oneself in to make a proper post.

I mean, here we go with another long reply from me. Can you imagine me on Twitter?  Roll Eyes

Edited:
Sheesh! I missed one period. Drat!

Okay, that, and yet another typo.
« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:53pm by Bill Myers »  

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Bill Myers
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #12 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:44pm
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xnoddyx wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:57pm:
and YaBB on my phone

Wow! You have a really nice phone, and YaBB looks great on it by the way. Very cool.

But the scrolling of that guy's post, does he ever stop talkingRoll Eyes

  

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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #13 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 6:23pm
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Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:44pm:
But the scrolling of that guy's post, does he ever stop talking.

No.  Grin
  
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Re: Hopefully this is the place to post it ...
Reply #14 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 11:49pm
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Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:41pm:
Oh you bad, bad boy! You'd make a video of what my posts look like on a regular phone, and then you'd send it to me?I guess that's medicine I'd deserve. 

sorry wasn't intended that way it was just to show how it looks on a phone that displays it ok xnoddyx wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 4:04pm:
I guess I should take a look on a regular phone, which I think more people use these days versus an iPhone or an iPod.Don't get me started on the iPad. YaBB looks sweet!    i will make a video of what it looks like on my phone for you

and any phone with a smaller screen will not be as easy to see it on.
Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:41pm:
By the way, did you notice how long your post is, and how you did what I like to do ... use quotes (thank you YaBB)? So I hope you know that it can sometimes be a difficult thing to rein oneself in to make a proper post.

yes i notice how long it is from the top of my screen to the bottom of it  Angry@ my self and yes it has quotes but they are not from outside the Thread Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:41pm:
I mean, here we go with another long reply from me. Can you imagine me on Twitter? 

hahaha i don't have Twitter thats what sms or WLM on my phone is for lol

Bill Myers wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:44pm:
Wow! You have a really nice phone, and YaBB looks great on it by the way. Very cool.

i think its good the only downside is microsoft decided not to let the phone send photos or files thru bluetooth.
  

YaBB install help video
1. what yabb forum are you running and the url
2. describe in as much detail as you can what happens and also post screenshots if you can
3. please be patient we live in different time zones and have other commitments but we will help you
as bill and ted say (Be excellent to each other)
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