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The State of The YaBB - 2013 (Read 13,913 times)
 Jan 23rd, 2013 at 4:53pm
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JonB 
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The State of The YaBB - 2013
Greetings to our fellow YaBBers and Forum Freaks everywhere.

What is the 'State of the YaBB'?  The state of YaBB is 'flowing smoothly'. The YaBB Next Team is on track with the current road-map for our next scheduled release; YaBB 2.5.4 with sub-boards. YaBB Next 2.5.4 is anticipated to replace YaBB 3.0 Beta Forum Software flat-file on the YaBBForum.com Community server. To ensure data compatibility, we are currently beginning the acceptance testing for 2.5.4 on a closed Yabbforum.com server clone. YaBB 2.5.4 will feature improved CSS/HTML, a 'new look' theme, plus a standard 2.4 series look for an easy transition. Sub-boards will not be the only new feature in 2.5.4. There will also be improved administrative and security functionality, plus several long-asked-for improvements to Messaging and Posting. We are working on UTF-8 interface improvements for better support of non-latinate character sets, and we will have several new language packs for 2.5.2/2.5.4. The core-code improvement project is also continuing. As new code and rewrites are done, they are being brought up to the standards outlined in the YaBB Code-i-festo. An Open Beta 2.5.4 will soon be announced, followed by testbed and beta evaluation. So spring will see a 'goodie' for you, probably before the Easter Bunny arrives in YaBBLand. In a software project, what really matters is improved functionality and a better user experience. The key to that is YaBB Next's continued dedication to reliable and stable code.

The YaBB Next Team is also testing an open source 'bug tracking' system. We are doing the testing with 2.5.2 and 2.5.4 bugs and fixes in order to create a single fix/build stream that will be open to all. In the future, all patches/fixes will be posted on the bug-tracker so no forum 'board searching' will be required. On the same quality control track, we have added a Current Build Board on YaBBForum.com.  When a 'bug fix' is tested and certified, we will build a complete new sub-release and post it in .zip and .tar.gz packages.  This is effectively the current main SVN branch for that release.  We are also maintaining/retro-fixing 2.5.2 and working on the 2.5.4 Alpha.

We are starting on the think-through of a completely new installer. Several alternatives are being considered, and we may have several installation options as a result. Also in the works is a re-organization of the Admin Center. We are opening a Think Tank topic on the Admin Center rework.  The 2.6 major release road-map will be updated after the 2.5.4 release is published.

In 2013, YaBB Next will continue its transformation into a front-end open source platform for forums with improved transparency and an inclusive 'big-tent' model for collaboration.  The YaBB Next Team has done an outstanding job, and we should thanks them all. I think Ron Hartendorp would have been proud.

Let the YaBB flow...
Wink
 
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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 Reply #1 - Jan 23rd, 2013 at 9:12pm
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fireblade103 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
as long as there will be no database, YaBB is dead. Embarrassed
 
 
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 Reply #2 - Jan 23rd, 2013 at 9:40pm
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fireblade103 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
sorry to say it john, ik know ron better then you, and he gave yabb up before we did.

he would not beat a dead horse..

sorry again.. Cry

 
 
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 Reply #3 - Jan 23rd, 2013 at 10:32pm
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JonB 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
Fireblade - you are entitled to your opinions.

However, if you had read the Roadmaps, you would know that we also have a MySQL version planned.  'How' we get there is a design philosophy choice.  What broke YaBB's progress was a fundamental difference of opinions between developers on coding standards and whether to build a hybrid filesystem. YaBB Next has chosen a path that will have both a flatfile YaBB and an optimized MySQL version of YaBB without compromises.  

But, I will now also ask why you think MySQL is some magic key?  Because everyone else has it? Or is it because of integration issues? Or scaling?  You say 'it's dead' - I say 'not'.

We may have a different idea/vision of how to 'get there' that you are unaware of.  

Good Luck
Smiley

 
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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 Reply #4 - Jan 23rd, 2013 at 11:07pm
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Bill Myers 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
I've always supported YaBB despite my criticisms over the years, and I feel very good about its current team members who are behind YaBB's vision, and its implementation.

I don't know if using MySQL is a key to making YaBB even better than it already is, but as Jon pointed out, MySQL is evidently in YaBB's future. Besides, I'm not too concerned about this one way or the other because I feel pretty confident that YaBB's team members will see what works, what doesn't work, and they'll adjust their plans accordingly.

One of the things I like most about YaBB's plans is that it seems to have been very carefully thought out, and its vision seems very promising.

 
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 Reply #5 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 12:51pm
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Homer J. S. 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
It's great that YaBB comes to life again! I use YaBB since 2001 and always loved it. I also tried for example phpBB but I did not like it.

By the way, one of the main reasons for me to use YaBB is that it does not use MySQL! I love the flatfile system, it's easy to maintain, edit and control. And it's not THAT slow at all. If YaBB would start to use MySQL or similar database systems, I think I would not use that versions.

I think YaBB is and always has been a board system for people who like to be outside the mainstream. YaBB is a special system for special people  Grin
 
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 Reply #6 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 2:48pm
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Tester Al 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
fireblade103 wrote on Jan 23rd, 2013 at 9:12pm:
as long as there will be no database, YaBB is dead. Embarrassed


I am not sure about dead, but without a database it is in a dead-end.

Since years, I exerperience serious performance problems with Yabb, as soon as the number of threads grows over 40'000. We run on Redhat Enterprise Linux 6, with ext3 file system. I cannot change the file system, just because Yabb happens to be a file system nightmare with about 100'000 files (repesenting 40'000 threads) in a single directory.

Our only solution is to clean out old threads, which is a pity, as many users would like to see them preserved as a form of collective memory.

I would expect the a database-based version of Yabb would do away with this problem.
 
 
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 Reply #7 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:25pm
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Dandello 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
Creating a mySQL version of YaBB will take some very serious consideration to do it right. It won't happen overnight. But it is on the roadmap.

Another idea under consideration - creating a way to archive old posts so that they're no longer in the Messages folder but still accessible for reading.
This is just in the idea phase.
 
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 Reply #8 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:53pm
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Bill Myers 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
Dandello wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:25pm:
Another idea under consideration - creating a way to archive old posts so that they're no longer in the Messages folder but still accessible for reading.
This is just in the idea phase.

I like that idea.

My thinking for our forum, if or when we get to the point of it not running well because it's become too large, is to install a new forum as a mirror of our old/exisiting one. That way, the old forum could become a read-only archive, and the new one could kind of start all over again.

As for exisiting members, I'm hoping I can duplicate the membership files for the new forum so that they can still log in to the new forum as they did in the old forum (or just reference the same files). In other words, nothing will really change for them.

Just thinking aloud. Roll Eyes

 
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 Reply #9 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 5:43pm
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depablo 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
Bill Myers wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:53pm:
My thinking for our forum, if or when we get to the point of it not running well because it's become too large, is to install a new forum as a mirror of our old/exisiting one. That way, the old forum could become a read-only archive, and the new one could kind of start all over again.

As for exisiting members, I'm hoping I can duplicate the membership files for the new forum so that they can still log in to the new forum as they did in the old forum (or just reference the same files). In other words, nothing will really change for them.

The Boy archived his forum as you have stated above.

Plenty conversion scripts to import your data and plenty free and paid forum software available.

I have setup all types of forum but YaBB looks sleek and the admin panel is functional and easy to follow. Sub-boards are just about here and Database integration will come with time  Wink
« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2013 at 5:48pm by depablo »  
Taking a peek behind the mask Wink
 
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 Reply #10 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 6:11pm
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Bill Myers 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
depablo wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 5:43pm:
The Boy archived his forum as you have stated above.

I remember that, and in part he inspired me to check that option out myself.

Back when it looked as if YaBB might have been shuttering itself, after this forum was down for a lenghtly period of time (11 days I think), and after its development seemed to have ceased altogether, I actually installed a new forum using other software that had been developed from a much earlier version of YaBB.

Being just a regular guy versus having the kind of knowledge you and other YaBB team members have, I really appreciated the easy-to-install self installation option of that other forum software, so it was in operation within minutes.

Still, my loyalty to YaBB was strong, and in large part because I generally hate change, I resisted going all the way with that other forum software, and instead chose to keep it available as a backup in case YaBB ever fails me, if it ever does.

When YaBB Legend Carsten deleted his membership here, that was almost the last straw of my loyalty. However, when people like you stayed with YaBB, and even went further by becoming part of YaBB's team, I was once again inspired to be positive about YaBB's future.

This is how I remain today, generally positive and upbeat about YaBB; dare I say; even excited! I've been using YaBB since 2002, and I hope to continue using it.

Like you mentioned, which I agree, "YaBB looks sleek and the admin panel is functional and easy to follow." Smiley

 
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 Reply #11 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 6:34pm
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JonB 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
As Dandello indicated - a well thought through database (MySQL) version is about two whole steps away.

We are making more progress than we had anticipated as the YaBB Next Team (Dandello et al) has already fixed many of our UTF-8 related data-to-presentation issues.  That is one of the huge hurdles - ISO to UTF-8 conversion. For a MySQL version to 'integrate' properly with other packages and utilities, we have to store all the data in UTF-8 format if we want to continue to support non-Latinate character sets.

I'm the geek who is looking into the 'archiving' option mentioned. I have a working theory I have discussed with Corey and Dandello that may solve a variety of issues: archiving, inter-forum transfers (such as move members or topics to a different YaBB install).  It may also provide the ability to interface our flatfile system with other scripts, tools and databases.  This is important as we 'plan' to split YaBB into a YaBB Basics version (UTF-8 flatfile with a lot of pre-defined options) and YaBB Next (full extensibility and MySQL).  My 'data' solution may resolve many of the issues (albeit indirectly).

Sadly, for the past three months my consulting and development work has kept me from making a lot of progress.  I'm dealing with a technical meltdown that must be resolved soon.  I have been working 6-7 days a week, 12-14 hours a day, plus my 'YaBB' stuff.  I have started on this 'data idea' work, and I'm trying to see if I can line up another developer/architect to work on this with me. It's not really a 'moon-shot', but we are in un-tested waters and I have a big learning curve before I can write a methodology that others can work with and expand on.  I'll make a stab at getting it all on paper in the next two weeks.  

I want to emphasize - this idea/theory is NOT a 'different flavor' of database - so our eyes are still on MySQL for scalable installations of YaBB.

Thanks to all for your support and interest in YaBB.

Wink
« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2013 at 6:38pm by JonB »  
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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 Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 2:31pm
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The Boy 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
JonB wrote on Jan 23rd, 2013 at 10:32pm:
But, I will now also ask why you think MySQL is some magic key?  Because everyone else has it? Or is it because of integration issues? Or scaling?  You say 'it's dead' - I say 'not'.

From a user perspective, the only reason is scalability IMHO.

Flatfile is simple, very fast (except search on larger sites) and robust.

From a Admin perspective, SQL brings a whole new set of headaches to the table.

From a developer perspective, SQL makes getting data out (certainly in PHP - my Perl is rubbish I'm afraid) far more trivial...  ...although there is potential to make a hash of it but pulling out too much on each page load.
 
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 Reply #13 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 11:24pm
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JonB 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
@ The Boy -
I agree. In the end, two primary problems haunt larger YaBB installations - the inodes count issue and the difficulty (not everyone is a server geek after all) of bringing more horsepower to the challenge.  A database-driven backend addresses both of those issues.

There are other advantages to using a database back-end, indexing (performance), integration with other apps, report writing/extraction, and better support for non-latinate character sets primarily.  We have another idea on some of that. (YaBB 2.7  Wink )

And that is why we have a road-map that calls for a Basics /flatfile version and a Next/MySQL (MySQL only for now) database version.

Thanks for all your support of YaBB
Cool
 
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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 Reply #14 - Feb 25th, 2013 at 3:34pm
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The Boy 
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Re: The State of The YaBB - 2013
JonB wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 11:24pm:
the inodes count issue

Ah, yes, forgot that one. Lost count of the number of times I had to reformat with more inodes.  Fortunately I had the foresight to stick my YaBB installation on its own dedicated mountpoint, so, other than the time it takes to tar it up, reformat, and untar (about 45mins on mine), it wasn't too bad to resolve, and left other sites on the same server running Smiley

Being sad, on the root filesystem that was the parent, I had a special YaBB.pl file that said the site was under maintenence, so as soon as I issues the umount, users could see that we were working on it...  ...but, then, I really should get out into the daylight more often Grin
 
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